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Topic: Running quickly between the green signposts
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 mujaahidirlande
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Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
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My family and I made umrah last week. Whilst making Sa'ee between Safaa and Marwah we came to the green signposts, in compliance with the Prophet's command to cross this spot with vigour I prepared myself but was then struck with doubt.
This was the first time my family had accompanied me and whilst I knew of the general command to run between these signposts I had no idea if a woman should do the same.
I quicky gathered my thoughts in an effort to recall what I knew of the rites of umrah but could not remember anything that specifically addressed this issue. I should and at this time was becoming quite perplexed, should my family run or not?
I then reasoned., correctly or not, that Hagar, a woman, was the first to do this actual run and that as I didn't have any evidence to the contrary then my family should do likewise.
I would be grateful if any of the students of knowledge would answer the following:
1. Is there any specific ruling regarding the woman's duty in this regard?
2. Was my ijtihad condemnable?
3. If the answer to No. 2 is yes, does that then mean my family should renew her umrah?
jazakAllahuKhairan
Mujaahid
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| mujaahidirlande
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Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
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Again JazakAllahu Khairan dear brother.
However there is still an absense of deleel . This reminds me of certain madhaahib that stipulate different prayer conditions for women based on their ijtihad, however and again our Shaikh, Al Albani pointed out that this is erroneous and that in the absence of anything to the contrary then women should pray as men pray.
Wouldn't and shouldn't the same be true in this instance?
Mujaahid.
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| Moosaa
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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Akhee your scholars have narrated to you, by way of Aboo 'Abdillaah may Allaah reward him, that there is ijmaa' (concensus) among the scholars regarding the woman not jogging between the two points. This is certainly daleel yaa akhee!
This ijmaa' (scholarly concensus) comes to you from the likes of the Imaam Ibn Baaz and 'Abdur-Razzaaq Al-'Afeefee and others, may Allaah have Mercy on them, and they have narrated that Ibn Al-Munthir (d. 317)cited a concensus in the affair!
I am no one to verify the statements of our great imaams like Ibn Baaz, may Allaah have Mercy on him, but just to cite their source that is available for anyone to read, Ibn Al-Munthir has a famous book called Al-Ijmaa' (Concensus) where he gathered things that he found the scholars agreeing upon. With each point of concensus that he mentioned in the book, he also mentioned an infiraad, or someone who was alone in opposing ijmaa', if he knew of one.
So in point #197, Ibn Al-Munthir mentions this ijmaa', that a woman does not jog around the Ka'bah, nor between Safaa and Marwah. (p.70). And he did not mention a single scholar that opposed this concensus.
It is important to note that Ibn Al-Munthir was a third/fourth century scholar, so when he cited ijmaa', it was based on the reports that reached him from the first three generations of scholars from the Companions, taabi'een, atbaa'i at-taabi'een, and early imaams.
And Ibn Al-Munthir was not infallable, so it is possible that there is a group of scholars who opposed this position, but without knowledge of that, it is just conjecture.
وإن الظن لا يغني من الحق شيئا
So based on the knowledge of the ijmaa' of the scholars that has reached us, without knowing other that it, what position can we have other than to say that a woman does not jog between the two green lights of Safaa and Marwah?
But you are to be commended for your caution in not blindly following the people. And based on what you knew at the time, that there is no difference between the 'ebaadah of men and women as a rule, and you did not know of this ijmaa', and I assume you were unable to ask someone of knowledge at that time, then your mention of Haajar and that she had done that seems logical, and we ask Allaah to give you one reward.
But you are not to be commended for hearing that the scholars have conveyed IJMAA' in an affair, and you say there is still an absence of daleel.
And Allaah knows best.
Moosaa
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سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
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| mujaahidirlande
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Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
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JazakAllahu Khairan brother Moosa for your wise and reasoned response. However in order to clear up any confusion I may have unintentionally brought about, let it be known that I affirm and hold that:
The adillah (evidences) that fiqh is derived from are four:-
The Book and the Sunnah, and these two are the foundation by which the mukallafoon (the morally responsible) are addressed, and upon which is built their Religion. Then ijmaa? (consensus) and al-qiyaasus-saheeh (sound and correct analogy), these two are derived from the Book and the Sunnah. So fiqh - in its entirety - does not leave the realms of these four usool (fundamentals).
The majority of the important ahkaam (rulings) are indicated to by these four adillah (evidences). They are indicated to by the nusoos (texts) from the Book and the Sunnah; and the Scholars have ijmaa? (consensus) about them, and they are indicated to by qiyaasus-saheeh (sound and correct analogy); because of what they entail of benefit, if it is a command; or what they contain of harm, if it is a forbiddance. Very few of the ahkaam have been differed over by the Scholars. In such cases the closest of them to the truth is the one who correctly refers back to these four usool.
Chapter Three from A BRIEF ESSAY CONCERNING USOOL-UL FIQH
By Shaykh ?Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Naasir as-Sa?dee
In my last response to brother abuAbdullah, ?the absense of deleel? I referred to was with reference to the Qur?an and Sunnah (nusoos). I erred as I did not consider the aspect of ijmaa? upon the qiyaasus-saheeh.
May Allah forgive me for that which I erred in and may He richly reward those who bore my ignorance with patience and kindness.
Mujaahid
verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.
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10-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
10-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
11-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
11-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM