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Topic: QUESTION: Why is it incorrect to say "Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah"?
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 Moosaa
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Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson
(Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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as-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah.
The question:
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Why is it incorrect to refer to Ibn al-Qayyim as "Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah"?
And why is it correct to say "Ibn al-Qayyim" or "Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah"? |
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linguistically, giving consideration to the meaning of the name...
May Allaah bless the one(s) who can answer correctly!
Moosaa ibn John Richardson
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سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
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| AbuYusufAlKashmiri
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Abu Yusuf Sagheer Ibn Abdir-Rasheed
(London, UK)
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Member
Posts: 56
Joined: Dec 2002
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Wa alaikum as sallam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatahu
Just a quick rough guess...
Because that his (rahimahullah) father was the head of the Al-Jawzeeyah institute/madrassah in Damascus, this is why he was known as Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawzeeyah.
But because the institute was set up before his father and continued after both him and his father, there were OTHER heads of the institute. Thus, it would be incorrect to use the definite article ('al' - 'the')as his father was not the ONLY head of the institute.
If you say Ibn-ul-Qayyim, then it would mean the 'the son of the head (of an institute without obviously specifying it) and if you say Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawzeeyah, then it would mean 'the son of a head of the Jawzeeyah'.
I'm probably wrong (!!!), but Allah knows best.
Akhukum
Abu Yusuf, Sagheer
وكل خير في إتباع من سلف
وكل شر في إبتداع من خلف
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| shahid393
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Aboo Husaam Shaheed ibn George Williams
(Wichita, KS USA)
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Joined: Sep 2002
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wa 'alaykum us-salaamu wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh,
i believe it is because the word "qayyim" in "qayyimul-jawziyyah" is already definite. i mean "qayyimul-jawziyyah" is definite itself, needing no "al" in front of "qayyim". if i'm not mistaken, this is mudaaf/mudaafun ilayh structure.
so "ibnul-qayyim" would be correct, because the "qayyim" in this case would be definite.
i understand, but i don't think its coming out too good!
aboo husaam shaheed ibn george williams
wichita, ks usa
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| Moosaa
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Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson
(Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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May Allaah reward you both generously, and bless you and your families.
Exactly, al-Jawziyyah was a school, and his father was its supervisor in his time. So Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah linguistically means:
Ibn (the son of)
Qayyim (the supervisor of)
al-Jawziyyah (the school by that name)
The son of the supervisor of the school: al-Jawziyyah.
"Qayyim al-Jawziyyah" (the supervisor of al-jawziyyah School) was his father, and thus he was his ibn: Ibn "Qayyim al-Jawziyyah".
Thus, if you understand the rules of mudhaaf and mudhaaf ilayhe, then you could not say: "Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyyah", since as the brothers have mentioned, "Qayyim" is mudhaaf and must not have the definite article: "al-" as a prefix. However, if is not mudhaaf, like when we say "Ibn al-Qayyim" (without al-Jawziyyah after it), then it is OK to have the prefix and there is nothing to prevent it grammatically or in its meaning.
And if you do not understand the rules of mudhaaf and mudhaaf ilayhe, then don't worry about not understanding the last paragraph, motivate yourself to study Arabic, and for now try to answer the following question that is not directly related to mudhaaf and mudhaaf ilayhe:
Is there any historical relationship between Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah and Ibn al-Jawzee, the author of Zaad al-Maseer (tafseer), Talbees Iblees, and other books, especially regarding the similarity in their names?
Moosaa ibn John Richardson
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سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
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| shahid393
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Aboo Husaam Shaheed ibn George Williams
(Wichita, KS USA)
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Member
Posts: 297
Joined: Sep 2002
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was the jawziyyah school named after ibn al-jawzee? i know they both were hanbalee.
aboo husaam shaheed ibn george williams
wichita, ks usa
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| UmmulHaarith
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Ummul-Haarith Shahidah bint Gregory
(Jizan, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia)
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Posts: 82
Joined: Sep 2002
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Ibn al-Jawzee (510-597 AH)
Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah (691-751 AH)
Since they lived almost 2 centuries apart, it is impossible for them to have met.
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ام الحارث شهيدة
Ummul-Haarith Shahidah
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| Moosaa
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Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson
(Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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Baarak Allaahu feekumaa.
Ibn al-Jawzee was: 'Abdur-Rahmaan ibn 'Alee al-Baghdaadee.
He died in the year 597 as mentioned.
He had a son named Yoosuf, who lived until the year 656.
Yoosuf established a famous school in his lifetime.
He named it...
You guessed it: al-Jawziyyah.
Then later on down the line, a man named Aboo Bakr ibn Ayyoob took charge of the school.
He became known as...
You guessed it: "Qayyim al-Jawziyyah" (the caretaker of al-Jawziyyah School)
Aboo Bakr, the caretaker of the school, had a son, Muhammad, who later became a famous scholar, known as:
Shaykh al-Islaam Shams ad-Deen Aboo 'Abdillaah Muhammad ibn Abee Bakr ibn Ayyoob, a.k.a...
Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah (d.751)
And there's your historical relationship between Ibn al-Jawzee and Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah!
And Allaah knows best.
Moosaa ibn John Richardson
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سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
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| SalmanBinNajm
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Abu Abdillah Salman bin Najm Khan
(London, UK/Riyadh, KSA)
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Member
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Asalamu alaykum
I think i know the answer, Allahu 'alam.
In the phrase 'Ibn al-Qayyim', the 'ibn' is mudhaaf and the 'al qayyim' is mudhaafun ilayh. So it is ok for the mudhaafun ilayh to be ma'rifah form.
In the phrase 'ibn Qayyim al Jawziyyah', the qayyim here is Mudhaaf ilayh (to 'ibn') AND ALSO A MUDHAAF to 'Al Jawziyyah'!
like in the sentence (for example) - 'Masjidu Rasool lillahi'. Or without the word 'Allaah' it would be 'Masjid Ar-Rasool'.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Barakallaahu feekum,
Akhook,
Salman bin Najm Khan Al Baakistaanee
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02-02-2006 @ 7:47 AM
