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01-03-2004 @ 5:44 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Aminah Ilyas bin Friedhelm (Germany)
Posts: 103
Joined: Oct 2002
Is a Hizbi = Mubtadi´ ?
Is a Mubtadi´ = Hizbi ?
Is a Mumayyi = Hizbi ?
And the manners how we behave with Ahlu-Bidah is the same like we behave with Hiziyyoon and Mumayyi ?

Barkallahu fiqhum

02-03-2004 @ 3:23 AM    Notify Admin about this post
. Abdulilah Rabah Lahmami (Al Madeenah, S. Arabia)
Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2002
Sheikh Obayd al Jabree hafidhahullaah said mubtadi' is general and a hizbi is more specific and every hizbi is a mubtadi' but not every mubtadi' is a hizbi. For example, the one who celebrates and calls for the celebration of the Prophet's birthday is an innovator but not necessarily a hizbi.

Allaah knows best.

قال تعالى:{إنا نحن نزلنا الذكر وإنا له لحافظون}
قال الشيخ السعدي - رحمه الله - في تفسيره (3/31): " فلا يحرف محرف معنى من معانيه( القرآن ) إلا وقيض  الله له من يبين الحق المبين وهذا من أعظم آيات الله ونعمه على عباده المؤمنين".

02-03-2004 @ 7:18 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Umm aboo yahya Amatullah bint Rupee (b/ham, UK)
Posts: 82
Joined: Dec 2002
So does that mean, when we call individuals hizbee we are really saying that they are of the 72sects going to the hellfire?

umm aboo yahyaa

02-03-2004 @ 6:34 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Ukkaasha Shaakir Ibn Willard Gree (Hawthorne, California)
Posts: 142
Joined: Sep 2002
Bismillaahir-Rahmaanir-Raheem Al-hamdulillaah wa Salawaatu wa Sallam Ala Rasoolillaah wa Ala Aalihi wa Saahbihi wa Man Walaa!

Amma Baudu:

As a brief side point:

Sheikh Ubayd Al-Jaabiree [hafidhahullaah] mentioned a faa'idah [benefit] with respect to the Mubtadi3 and the Saahibul Bid'a3h in the lecture series clarifying Tamyee3. He basically said the Mubtadi3 is the one whom the hujjah [proofs and evidences] has been established upon and the Saahibul Bid'a3h is the one whom the hujjah has not been established upon. I believe the brothers at have translated the tapes to this discussion.

Imaam Ash-Shaatibee mentioned in Al-I3tisawm [pg.27] concerning the mubtadi3:

"Mua3nnid Li-Shar3 wa Mushaaqqa Lahu" [the obstinate rejector of the legislation and opposer of it]

As we all know generally the people have basically been divided into two groups as a number of Ulema have mentioned from the likes of Shaykh Ubayd Al-Jaabiree [hafidhahullaah][this was mentioned in his explanation of usoolu sittah] and Sheikh Muhammad Amaan Al-Jaamee [rahimahullaah] [as was mentioned in his lecture concerning the manhaj of the salaf in calling to Allaah] Salafiyoon and Khalafiyoon. So is it befitting that the Hizbee be entered into the ranks of the Salafiyoon?

Sheikh Saalih al-Fawzaan mentioned in ajweebatul mufeedah what is translated as:

"Yes, everyone who opposes Ahlus-Sunnati wal Jamaa'ah from amongst those who ascribe themselves to Islaam in Dawah [inviting to Allaah] or in the Aqeedah or in anything from the Usool of Imaan then he enters into the 72 sects which comes under the Wa'eed [threat or promise] and he is to be criticised and punished to the extent of his opposition." [ajweebatl mufeedah pg.16]

And sheikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan also mentioned in ajweebah:

"And who ever opposes this manhaj-meaning the manhajus-salaf and precedes upon another manhaj then verily he is not from us and we are not from him and we dont not attribute ourselves to him and he does not attribute himself to us..." [pg.7]

And Sheikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan also mentioned: "And anyone who is in opposition to Jamaa'atu Ahlis-Sunnati then he is Daal[astray]there is no Jamaa'ah that we consider to be correct except one Jamaa'ah and that is  Ahlus Sunnati wal Jamaa'ah and whatever is in opposition to this Jamaa'ah then it is in opposition to the manhaj of the prophet [sallalahu alayhi wa salam]. And we also say everyone who opposes Ahlus Sunnati wal Jamaa'ah then they are from Ahlul Ahwaa, and their opposition differs with respect to whether the ruling upon them is deviant or whether takfeer is made upon them in accordance to how big their diffferences are and how small and how far they are away from the truth or how close they are to the truth." [pg.10]

And Sheikh Naasir mentioned in his fatawaa:

"And these Ahzaab, we do not believe that they are upon the straight path but rather we are sure that they are upon those pathways in which at the head of each of them are devils calling the people to them." [pg.114]

The bulk of these statements were taken from a brief risalah prepared by the brothers at  Maktabul Furqaan in the emirates entitled: Hadhihil Jamaa'aa3t Minal Ithnayn wa Saba'eena Firqah.

من خالف هذا المنهج- يعني منهج السلف-و سار على منهج آخر فانه ليس منا و لسنا منه, و لا ننتسب اليه, ولا ينتسب الينا, و لا  يسمى جماعة, و انما يسمى فرقة من الفرق الضالة

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