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Topic: question about pointing the finger in tashahhud
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 shahid393
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Member
Posts: 297
Joined: Sep 2002
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as-salaamu 'alaykum,
what is the ruling on pointing the finger in tashahhud, do you move it or keep it still? i had read in sh. al-albaani's book that you should move it, but some brothers had me listen to a tape where abu usaamah challenged that position. i changed it after listening to the tape, because the daleel sounded good, but now i want to be sure.
jazakallaah khayran,
shahid williams
This message was edited by shahid393 on 11-17-02 @ 6:39 PM
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| mujaahidirlande
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Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
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There are a number of ahadith pertaining to this matter
As for pointing:
1. Abdullah bin Zubair narrated: When the Messanger of Allah sat in prayer, he placed the left foot between his thigh and shank and stretched the right foot, and placed his left hand on his left knee, and placed his right hand on his right thigh, and raised his finger.
The Book of Salat, No. 302 Sahih Muslim
Ibn Az-Zubair reported that 'the Prophet would point with his finger while supplicating, and he would not move it.' (Abu Dawud)- However Al Albani says this particular rendering does not have an authentic isnaad.Further he adds that this addition 'and he would not move it' is irregular and rejected (shadh and munkar).
As for moving the finger:
Wa'il ibn Hajr reported that the Prophet would place his left palm on his left thigh and knee. he would place the end of his right elbow upon his right thigh and would then close his right hand forming a circle.
In another narration it states: 'He would make a circle with his middle finger and thumb and point with his index finger. Then he would raise his finger, and (Wa'il) saw him moving it to make supplications.'
Question: As pointing doesn't necessarily negate moving and vice versa, and as the pointing is done toward the Qibla. Could it be that perhaps the issue here is not 'if' the Prophet moved his finger but the manner in which he did it, ie. done with vigorous up and down movements or pointing with force whilst moving gently, so as to remain pointing at the Qibla?
I don't really want to enter the realms of conjecture here so if any of our learned brothers are aware of any daleel it would be greatly appreciated.
verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.
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| abu.abdurrahman
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Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sep 2002
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Asalamu Alaykum yaa akhee,
Look in the book called: "The Prophet's(salalahu alayhee wa salaam) Prayer, from the beginning to the end as though you see it" By Shaikh Albani(Rahimuallah). This topic is well covered in this book.
If my memory serves me correctly, which I'm sure you will find in this book. Imam Ahmad(Rahimuallah) was ask about the Tashahudd and he said do it "vigorously"
Wa ALLAHU Alam
Abu Abdurrahman as Salafee al Kanadi
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| shahid393
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Member
Posts: 297
Joined: Sep 2002
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as-salaamu 'alaykum,
a brother emailed me off the list concerning this.
he asked brother aqeel walker:
"As far as you know, what is the reason behind the ikhtilaaf of not moving the finger in Tashahud? And who holds that opinion from the Kibaarul 'Ulayamah?"
brother aqeel walker replied:
"This was the position of Shaikh Muqbil bin Haadee Al-Waadi'ee (rahimahullaah) - i.e. that the finger is NOT moved during the tashahhud, rather one only points with it without moving it. The issue of difference revolves around a single hadeeth reported by Waa'il bin Hujr.
Shaikh Muqbil discusses it in As-Saheehul-Musnad mimmaa laysa fis-Saheehayn, vol.2, pg.265. The narration was recorded by Ibn Maajah, and Waa'il said, "I saw the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) making a circle with his thumb and middle finger and he lifted the one that was next to them (i.e. the index finger), supplicating with it in the Tashahhud."
Shaikh Muqbil said, "This hadeeth is Hasan (good). This hadeeth proves pointing with the finger. However, in reference to moving it, then the only one who narrated that was Zaa'idah bin Qudaamah and he has contradicted 13 narrators (who all narrated this same hadeeth from Waa'il): Bishr bin Al-Mufadhdhal with Abee Daawood, Sufyaan bin 'Uyainah with An-Nasaa'ee, Ath-Thawree with An-Nasaa'ee, 'Abdul-Waahid bin Ziyaad with Ahmad, Shu'bah with Ahmad, Zuhayr bin Mu'aawiyah with Ahmad, 'Abdullaah bin Idrees with Ibn Khuzaymah, Khaalid bin 'Abdullaah At-Tahhaan with Al-Bayhaqee, Muhammad bin Fudhayl with Ibn Khuzaymah, Abul-Ahwas Sallaam bin Sulaym with At-Tayaalisee, Aboo 'Awaanah and Gheelaan bin Jaami' both were quoted by Al-Bayhaqee as mentioning it (i.e. this hadeeth without moving the finger), and all of them reported it from 'Aasim bin Kulayb (who narrated it from his father, from Waa'il) and none of them mentioned moving (the finger) in it.
It was also reported from the companions 'Abdullaah bin Az-Zubayr, 'Abdullaah bin 'Umar, Aboo Humayd As-Saa'idee, Aboo Hurayrah, Sa'd bin Abee Waqqaas, Ibn 'Abbaas, Khaffaaf bin Eemaa', and all of them did not mention moving (the finger). So it is known from this that the report of Zaa'idah is strange and contradicting (Shaathth). And Allaah knows best. The detailed explanation concerning those who reported the hadeeth of these narrators who have opposed Zaa'idah, and (the hadeeths of) these companions can be seen in the research of our noble brother, Ahmad bin Sa'eed, may Allaah preserve him."
This is so that you may know the other side of the coin. Baarakallaahu feek. I myself agree with Shaikh Muqbil (not that I'm anyone special - but just letting you know). I don't move my finger in Tashahhud, but this is not an issue to fight over. The difference is that Shaikh Al-Albaanee considered this a case of Ziyaadatuth-Thiqah (the additional information added in a narration of one of the narrators who is reliable that is not found in the other versions of the hadeeth). This is because Al-Albaanee did not consider the additional wording, "and he would move it" as contradictory because he says that pointing does not negate movement. Shaikh Muqbil went with the basic principle that a Ziyaadah (extra added wording) that contradicts what others who were more reliable or more numerous in their number reported is Shaathth, and thus unaccepted.
This is the issue, and Allaah knows best.
On the other issue, I'll call one of the Mashaayikh about it soon, inshaa' Allaah. I could answer it but I want something good and concrete for you with the name of one of the scholars behind it. Baarakallaahu feekum."
mashaa-allaah, this really helped out. jazakumullaahu khayran for all those who helped me with this.
shahid williams
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17-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
17-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM