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Topic: what does Athariyyah mean?
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 dawud-ASWJ
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Abu Fatimah al engleezi
(sheffield; United Kingdom)
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Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Jun 2009
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Assalamu Alaykum
I've come accross this term a few times but am unfamiliar with it. Could someone give me a full explanation inshallah
Jazak Allahu Khair
Assalamu Alaykum
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| JamalAl-Islam
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Abu Khadeejah Jamal ibn John
(London)
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Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2008
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Wa aleikum asalam akhi,
Alhamdulillah. Athariyyah comes from the Arabic word Athar, which means narration. When somebody calls himself 'Athari' he is claiming to be a person of narrations. This doesent neccesarily mean that he is a narrator himself, rather he means by this term that he follows or adheres to the narrations. So in turn 'Athariyyah' is to describe a particular way which relates to that which we have just mentioned. I hope this clarifies the terminology for you insha Allah wa jazakum Allahu khairan
Abu Khadeejah Jamal Cooke
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| dawud-ASWJ
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Abu Fatimah al engleezi
(sheffield; United Kingdom)
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Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Jun 2009
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Jazak Allahu Khair brother but I am more hoping to understand why some of the salafi brothers are assiating themselves with this label?
I did a quick search and found a description but wanted to check its authenticity.
It says there are there are three madhabs in aqeedah and athariyah arethe ones who follow (and then it described the aqeedah exactly as preached by the salafi brothers may allah presevre them) so thats what it seemed to be but I wanted to check with you brothers as it certainly wasn't a reliable website.
Jazak Allahu Khair
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| JamalAl-Islam
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Abu Khadeejah Jamal ibn John
(London)
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Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2008
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Afwan akhi i dont have any further knowledge with regards to an elaboration on what you have mentioned, Allahu 'alam.
Abu Khadeejah Jamal Cooke
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| sajid_chauhan_81
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unspecified ساجد
(Mumbai (India))
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Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
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Narrated by Abu Hurairah radiAllaahu anhu: Rasoolullaah sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam was asked, "Who are the best of the people?" He sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam replied, "Me and those who are with me (i.e. The Companions)." Then he was asked, "Then who?" He sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam said,"Thumma Man kana ahlul athar" Then the Ahlul Athar{Those who follow the athar(narrations/precedents of the Companions)}. Then he was asked, "Then who?". He sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam refused to reply. (Musnad Ahmed, Saheeh)
Hope that provides sufficient basis for the permissibility of the usage of terms like ahlul athar, athariyyah, atharee,... BaarakAllahu feekum.
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| UmarTheFloridian
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Aboo Sifr Daniel bin Adam
(Al-Ahsa, Eastern Province, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Sep 2008
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My brother Dawud, that was indeed an unauthentic site. The claim that there are three madhahib in 'aqeedah is an increasingly common claim by those following the deviated sects. I am very familiar with this specific claim; I have seen it many times and recognize that sort of speech the site in question used.
This is a claim typically used by the Sufi Ash'aris and Maturidis to legitimize their beliefs. We all know that there is only one correct 'aqeedah in Islam - the 'aqeedah drawn from the Qur'an and the Sunnah on the understanding of the Salaf as-Salih. There are some people, however, who would have us believe otherwise.
The claim typically goes like this: "The scholars of Sunni Islam have traditionally recognized three different schools of aqidah: the Ash'ari, the Athari, and the Maturidi." This claim is about as true as my family telling me about Santa Claus when I was a child.
What they mean when they say Athari is Salafi. And indeed, both terms would be correct. Athari, however, is a lesser-used term and allows them to "sneak" this tactic by more easily. Thus, the Ash'aris and Maturidis - two deviated sects outside the fold of Ahlus Sunnah - attempt to paint themselves as belonging to mainstream Islam while at the same time milking the whole "unity" card many have been playing lately.
Short answer: A Salafi follows the Salaf, and Athari follows the Athar. Both are linguistically correct terms to use, but don't be fooled by those who claim there are multiple 'aqaa'id (creeds) within Sunni Islam; the Sunnah is one and so are its people.
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| dawud-ASWJ
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Abu Fatimah al engleezi
(sheffield; United Kingdom)
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Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Jun 2009
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Jazak Allahu Khair for the useful and accurate answer to my question but just to clarify, I hadn't meant that there were three VALID madhadbs of aqeedah, I had meant that athariyah being the aqeedah of the salaf and the other two being teh aqeedah of teh deviated groups.
So for example, is it fair to call maturdi and ashari (incorrect) madhabs of aqeedah. Meaning they dont have a stance on fiqh and it is purely aqeedah. I accept without a doubt that the athariyah is the correct aqeedah but I just want to get my head around whthere when I say athariyah am I just referring to teh aqeedah of ahlus sunnah (e.g. not denying Allah's names and attributes, not using conjecture etc etc).
Hope that clarifys my question and Jazak Allahu Khair for taking teh time to respond and your points have been most useful
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| dawud-ASWJ
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Abu Fatimah al engleezi
(sheffield; United Kingdom)
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Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Jun 2009
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"Al-Asha'ri was brought up in the household of Abu Alee al-Jubaa'ee and ended up becoming an Imaam for the Mu'tazilah, aiding and arguing for the correctness of their madhhab"
this is from the asharis.com website which is promoted by salafitalk so i presume it is a reliable source of info. I am not saying they are correct madhabs, but is it fair to say there are three madhabs in aqeedah (only one of them being correct due to the 73 sects hadith which would directly imply the rest are deviant).
Im trying to get my head around the branches and sects both in theoretical terms and in practical terms (i.e. where are teh asjari's today and what name do they take for themselves).
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| sajid_chauhan_81
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unspecified ساجد
(Mumbai (India))
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Member
Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
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Br. Dawud may Allah bless you, there are many incorrect aqeedah out there and not just ashari or maturidi. Other incorrect aqeedah are those of the Jahmiyyah, Mutazilah, Kullabiyyah, Murjiah, Khawaarij, Rafidah, Sufi and many more.
The only correct aqeedah/manhaj is Sunni/Salafi/Athari/Ahlul Hadeeth.
Regarding the various explanations of the hadeeth of the 73 sects click here
In modern times, many sufis like Deobandis, Tablighi Jamat, Brailwees and others claim that the ashari aqeedah is correct and they ascribe themselves to it. However, as the brothers at asharis.com have proved that Imam Abul Hasan al-Ashari repented from his old deviant aqeedah and accepted the correct Athari aqeedah before his death. So, the ascriptions of these deviated sects (Deobandis, brailwees, etc.) to him is wrong.
Hope that helped.
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| UmarTheFloridian
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Aboo Sifr Daniel bin Adam
(Al-Ahsa, Eastern Province, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Sep 2008
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Don't worry brother Dawud, I knew you weren't going along with the claims of the website you read. I was merely speaking about the claims of these Ash'aris and Maturidis. Many people read this forum, and some may not be familiar with the tricks of the deviated sects and end up getting confused.
I showed the website Asharis.com to some of the students of knowledge in my locality, and they commented it was the best resource they've ever seen in the English language. It is a great place to prepare oneself against many of the tricks and word games.
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| dawud-ASWJ
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Abu Fatimah al engleezi
(sheffield; United Kingdom)
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Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Jun 2009
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Jazak Allahu Khair Brother
what I mean to ask, is do the deviant aqeedah spread from three progomal branches or how many original branches of deviated aqeedah (no doubt these can further spread into many sects).
FOr example shia starts with one branch then branches off into many branches of different shia sects. Does aqeedah have some basic branches?
So you are saying that the majority of sufi's take their aqeedah from this ashari aqeedah? I see so what otehr branches are there and where do they manifest themselves today?
May Allah bless you also brother
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| dawud-ASWJ
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Abu Fatimah al engleezi
(sheffield; United Kingdom)
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Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Jun 2009
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Jazak Allahu Khair for clarifying that umarthefloridan
Can you talk me through the asharis website as I still need to aquaint myself with it inshallah. I looked on there before but am very confused about what I am looking at and not sure where to start, I looked at the basics sections but that gives an introduction to teh correct aqeedah (not saying there is anything wrong with that but I would like an introduction as to who teh asharis are and where they reside and what important information I should be aware of.
Jazak Allahu Khair
Assalamu Alaykum
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| UmarTheFloridian
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Aboo Sifr Daniel bin Adam
(Al-Ahsa, Eastern Province, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia)
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Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Sep 2008
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My brother Dawud, you have many great questions. While I could give you answers for some of them, this is a public forum and I feel that if I begin answering a long string of questions then two things may happen:
1. I will give the appearance of being pompous and taking myself as some big student of knowledge, or
2. Some of the general people and/or new Muslims may literally accept me as being such.
The Muslims of today have a tendency to take anyone who speaks as knowledgeable. Myself and others have contact with actual scholars due to our location.
If you have further questions then I am sure some of us could help you get them answered, but at this point I would prefer to help you that way through private messages. I do not want anyone to take me as a person who is worth listening to.
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29-08-2009 @ 8:20 PM
14-09-2009 @ 6:43 PM