Topic: Refuting the Lie that the Scholars of Saudi Only Refute Foreigners

Sunnah    -- 10-09-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Refuting the Lie that the Scholars of Saudi Only Refute Foreigners

All praise is due to Allaah. And prayers and peace be upon His Messenger.

A new method of attempting to separate the Ummah from its scholars has emerged in recent times, amongst the many others that already exist. Namely, that the scholars of Saudi only refute foreigners (non-Saudis), and hence they have ta'assub to their own people.

I open this thread in order to invite the tullaab here to refute this new claim.

As a start, Shaykh Rabee has refuted Bakr Abu Zaid extensively.

Shaykh Ahmad an-Najmee has refuted Ibn Jibreen and has written a whole book on him, likewise Shaykh Zaid al-Madkhalee has refuted him also...

Also Shaykh Rabee' refuted Safar and Salman, and those who were upon the ideas of Mohammad and Sayyid Qutb.

Members of this board are invited to add to this.

Sunnah    -- 19-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM

abdulilah    -- 19-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  There is a canadian teacher in jeddah who said when Adnan Urur visited Khalid bin Waleed mosque he was asked the question: Why have the scholars in Saudi refuted you? and he replied to them because I am not Saudi!!!!!!!

What about Adnan Urur's statement that the best book on manhaj is the book of sayid Qutb!!!! When Sayid Qutb gives a definition of the shahada Laa ilaaha illallaah as meaning laa haakimiya illa lillaah (there is no rulership except to Allaah)
This is a Lordship meaning of the Kalimah which the scholars have said mean: there is none truly to be worshipped except Allaah.
the aspect of worship must be there since the kuffar of Quraish believed in the Lordship of Allaah but they set up partners as intermediaries with Allaah in worship.

So Adnan Urur was holding on to a last straw to confuse the people in Canada but the salafees in Troid may Allaah protect them upon the sunnah spread the refutations of the Ulama aganaist this misguided man. Yet those at Khalid bin Waleed mosque continued to warn against those spreading this tape. Infact Afraaz Bakhsh on the minbar said against the brothers who gave out the tape refuting Adnan "as if this is from the deen"!!! spreading the kallam of the Ulamaa refuting the ahlu bid'ah wa ahlul Akhdtaa (The people of innovation and people with open errors) is indeed from the deen.

Those at khalid bin Waleed mosque such as Afraaz and Basheer Schill until this day have not repented for their confusion and splitting away from the correct path. for inviting the likes of Adnan Urur and tele links with Shareef AbdulNoor who has been refuted by Sheikh Muqbil.

So those who still cooperate with them must be advised, admonished, and if they persist they are warned against.

الـعلم قـال الله قـال رسوله     قال الصحابة هم أولوا العرفان

abdulilah    -- 19-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  the word refuted = radda in Arabic
so to say sheikh Ahmed Najmi radda 'ala Sheikh Jibreen
then every error and innovation is Mardood rejected or refuted. So i don't see a problem for the brother using that word since in reality everyone saying is rejected or accepted except the companion of this Grave meaning Muhammad sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam.

since the book is a Rad.

Sheikh Rabee' refuted Bakr Abu Zayd also in al Had al Faasil bayana al Haq wal baatil. For his statements on Sayid Qutb also. so this is a refutation of errors and a criticism.

And this is how the deen is preserved.

Sheikh Bin Baz rahimahullaah had many rudood, so too sheikh al Albaani rahimahullaah, sheikh Uthaimeen rahimahullaah. Even if the person is from ahli sunnah and a scholar and he said an error or brought something new then they the ulamaa will refute what he has said and reject it.  

الـعلم قـال الله قـال رسوله     قال الصحابة هم أولوا العرفان

abdulilah    -- 19-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  قال تعالى : { الذين إن مكناهم في الأرض أقاموا الصلاة وآتوا الزكاة وأمروا بالمعروف ونهوا عن المنكر ولله عاقبة الأمور } .

{ هو الذي أنزل عليك الكتاب منه آيات محكمات هنّ أم الكتاب منه آيات محكمات هنّ أم الكتاب وأخر متشابهات فأمّا الذين في قلوبهم زيغ فيتبعون ما تشابه منه ابتغاء الفتنة وابتغاء تأويله وما يعلم تأويله إلاّ الله والراسخون في العلم يقولون آمنّا به كلّ من عند ربنا وما يذّكر إلاّ أولوا الألباب }

{ بل نقذف بالحق على الباطل فيدمغه فإذا هو زاهق ولكم الويل مما تصفون }

This one i hear sheikh Obayd quote from his tapes mashaallaah:

وروى أبو القاسم اللالكائي في " شرح أصول اعتقاد أهل السنة "، عن قتادة أنه قال لعاصم الأحول : ( يا أحول إن الرجل إذا ابتدع بدعة ينبغي لها أن تذكر حتى تحذر ) .

الـعلم قـال الله قـال رسوله     قال الصحابة هم أولوا العرفان

yusuf.adam    -- 19-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM

This message was edited by yusuf.adam on 12-28-02 @ 12:56 AM

Sunnah    -- 20-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  As Salamu Alaikum

Yusuf.Adam, you are speaking in an issue that you are not qualified to speak in and which is above you, and what you have said in your post is out of place and makes no sense. Abdulilah has already pointed this out, and your follow up reply also makes no sense either. So please leave this issue inshaallah to those who know better, and try not to put yourself forward in making irrelevant points that are not needed or justified to begin with.

Shaykh Ahmad an-Najmee has written a whole book expelling Ibn Jibreen from Ahl us-Sunnah. This is more than just a "radd". The title of the Book is "Shaykh Ibn Jibreen is Not From Ahl us-Sunnah".

Also I should clarify that my invitation for members to respond on this issue raised as the subject of the thread applies only to the students of knowledge on this board. So I hope they can add to this thread inshallaah, as they are more qualified than others.

Basically to refute the lie that the Scholars of Saudi only refute non-Saudis.

This message was edited by Sunnah on 10-20-02 @ 1:18 AM

yusuf.adam    -- 20-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM

This message was edited by yusuf.adam on 12-28-02 @ 12:57 AM

yusuf.adam    -- 20-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM

This message was edited by yusuf.adam on 12-28-02 @ 12:57 AM

AbuKhadeejahSP    -- 20-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Asslaamu 'alaykum,

Going back to the original thread from 'Sunnah'. Then may Allaah reward him for his initiation of this important topic.

As for accusing the 'ulemah of the Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia, may Allaah preserve it and them, then this type of statement claiming that they only refute those who are 'non-Saudis' would only come from one whose heart is diseased.

This type of statement, we used to hear from the takfeerees, tahreerees, Suroorees and Ikhwaanees. They used to say that these Scholars are in the pockets of the rulers and trying to protect the 'Saudi State'. Not a single one of the scholars was free from their evil speech, claiming that these are 'scholars of the state', 'paid slaves of the West', 'scholars of the blood of women', 'scholars who announce the beginning and the end of Ramadhaan', 'mummified', 'scholars who know not the waaqi'' and other despicable speech.

What is being said now can just be added to what used to be said before by those who harbour jealousy towards these great A'immah of Salafiyyah, those who harbour ill-thoughts towards the 'Lajnatud-Daa'imah' and the rulers who set it up and allow it to flourish.

Demeaning these scholars and accusing them of ta'assub only adds to the fuel of the fire of  various diseased ahzaab of takfeer and Jihaad [fasaad] - who wish and plot for the downfall of this nation that was built upon tawheed.

And all of this is apart from the fact these noble scholars are the furthest from such false accusations. And the one who curses them and accuses them with such evil is no less than a zindeeq. Muhammad Ibn Ismaa‎eel at-Tirmidhee said, ‎I and Ahmad Ibn Hasan at-Tirmidhee were with the Imaam of the Deen, Aboo Abdillaah Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, and Ahmad Ibn al-Hasan said to him, ‎O Abaa Abdillaah, they mentioned the Ashaabul-hadeeth to Ibn Abee Qutaylah of Makkah, and he said, ‎The Ashaabul-hadeeth are an evil people.‎ So Imaam Ahmad stood and while shaking off the dust from his garment he said, ‎Zindeeq, zindeeq, zindeeq (heretic),‎ (and he continued like this) until he entered his house.‎

We ask, do these people not know what has been occuring over the last decade?

The Scholars of Madeenah (Shaykh Muhammad al-Jaami, Shaykh Rabee' al-Madkhalee, Shaykh Muhammad ibn Haadee etc) refuted Safar al-Hawaalee, Salmaan al-Awdah, Nasr al-Umar, Qahtaanee and other from the callers to Surooriyah - This was a decade ago. These Suroorees were Saudis! So is that these people believe that the scholars of Madeenah and Saudiyah used to refute their own but now have stopped?

Rather, due to the evil and the fasaad of these 'Saudi Suroorees', the Noble Father and Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Baaz called for Safar and Salmaan to be prevented from evil by the authorities. And this resulted in their arrest and detention. And their is a photocopy of this letter by Ibn Baaz to the interior ministry in the back of the book 'Al-Qutubiyah'.

And we know that Allaamah Rabee' refuted Shaykh Bakr Abu Zayd (another Saudi) several years ago in a letter and then in a published book (al-Hadd al-faasil baynal-haqq wal-baatil) due to the latter's defence of Syed Qutb and other innovators.

Wallaahi, the one who accuses these Scholars of Saudi with nationalism and the likes is maybe jealous of the status of those great scholars and the station which Allaah has raised them to. I must say, that after the passing away of the Imaams of the Sunnah in such quick succession - First Ibn Baaz then Al-Albaanee, then Ibn Al-Uthaymeen and the fourth, Muqbil Ibn Haadee (rahimahumullaah) - I thought that perhaps those who had ambitions and delusions of self-granduer would put themsleves forward and reject those whom are truly befitting, older in age, greater in knowledge and already Kibaar by all accounts.

So from those who initiated this evil and raised his head above the parapit was Abul-Fitan al-Misree. He claimed that taking the positions of the major scholars was tantamount to blameworthy taqleed. He worked his hardest along with his soldiers to cut the people off from their scholars - He labelled the Salafis with Hadaadiyyah. He accused them of taqleed. He claimed that da'watus-Salafiyyah had to be a broad path, accepting anyone who claimed attachment. So the Ikhwaan, Tableegh and Jihaadis came into his definition of the Saved Sect. The other scholars, like Fawzaan, Rabee', Ahmad An-Najmee etc., were labelled by Abul-Fitan and his followers with 'harshness' and 'shiddah'. Some of the people were fooled by this manhaj of Abul-Fitan and his defenders... But not the Scholars, NOT Shaykh Rabee' and Shaykh 'Ubayd and Shaykh Muhammad al-Bannah and Shaykh Ahmad an-Najmee and their likes.

So the tactics of these people are clear and that is: To find any way to discredit the major scholars, to accuse them falsely, so that the people turn away from them and turn away from this land of Tawheed and what it produces by way of 'ulemah. By Allaah! There is not a land like it today in the world where 'ilm and 'ulemah are found.

And we ask another question: Why now do we find this type of doubt being thrown towards the 'ulemah of the Kingdom? Is it because these people (like Abul-Hasan) expected themselves to be raised after the passing away of the four Imaams of this time? Then they only awoke to find that those who were Kibaar then are still kibaar today! Shaykh Fawzaan, Abdul-Azeez aalush-Shaykh, Rabee ibn Haadee, Ubayd al-Jaabiree etc.

I pray that Allaah guides the people to their scholars as Ayoob as-Sakhtiyaanee (died 131H) said: "From the success of a youth or non-Arab is that Allaah guides to a scholar of the Sunnah"

Wallaahul-musta'aan; wasalaamu alaykum

Cigdem.Dal    -- 04-11-2010 @ 8:04 AM
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم


Due to the significant importance of this issue.  Baarak Allahu feekum, may Allah not allow our heart to deviate from this irrefutably correct manhaj.  Allahumma aameen.

Umm Abdillaah

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