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Posted By Topic: The scholars reply to Abu Usamah Khalifah's question against Sh. Rabee' at Green lane mosque Birmingham December 2009

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10-01-2010 @ 10:27 PM    Notify Admin about this post
. Abdulilah Rabah Lahmami (Al Madeenah, S. Arabia)
Posts: 327
Joined: Sep 2002

Alhamdulillaah Rabil 'Alameen wal 'aqibatul lilmutaqeen wa laa 'udwana illa 'ala dhaalimeen wa Ashadu anLaa ilaaha ilallaah wa Ashadu anna muhammadan rasoolullaah sallallaahu 'alahi wa sallam, Amma Ba'd:

The scholars reply to Abu Usamah Khalifah's question against Shaikh Rabee' at Green lane mosque conference Birmingham December 2009.

First, Abu Usama says: "some of the scholars and students of knowledge have REFUTED the honourable Sheikh Rabee' Al-Madkhali (hafidhahullaah) INCLUDING YOURSELF and is this true that he held the position of Irjaa?""

Sheikh Saalih Sadlan praised Sheikh Rabee' as being one of the scholars and like other scholars he is correct in some things and mistaken in others. He said that he advised him in his house to leave off speaking about the dead especially those who have works on Tafseer and knowledge from the scholars (most probably referring to Sheikh Rabee's refutations on Sayid Qutb and his books). Sheikh Saalih Sadlan also said that Sheikh Rabee' has something of this harshness.

Then Sheikh Saalih Sadlan compares Sayid Qutb to Ibn Hajar and he said that the scholars continue to benefit from Fathul Baaree of Ibnul Hajr even though he erred. Then Abu Usama Khalifah added in the translation that Sheikh Rabee' should stop "cursing the dead people... "due to a hadeeth of the Prophet salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam mentioning this. This addition was not mentioned by Sheikh Sadlan in the Arabic so take note. Sheikh Saalih Sadlan ended by defending Sheikh Rabee' to not have Irjaa'

This was taken straight to some of the scholars for their reply:
1. After speaking to Sheikh 'Ubayd Al-Jaabiree and Sheikh Muhammad ibn Haadi and they heard the above speech, they both said that it is wrong to compare Sayid Qutb with Ibn Hajar rahimahumAllaah. As the latter was considered to be from the scholars even if he erred so his mistakes rejected and honour kept as for Sayid Qutb then he was ignorant of the deen and has vile speech against Musa 'alaihi wa sallam and the Companions radiallaahu 'anhum.

2. Secondly, Sheikh 'Ubayd Al-Jaabiree and Sheikh Muhammad ibn Haadi said that clarifying the errors of those who err openly even from those who died is from the methodology of the pious predecessors so that the Muslims do not follow them in their open errors.

3. Thirdly, Sheikh Muhammad ibn Haadi added that this is why we should stick to the books of the Pious Predecessors so that we know their methodology in refuting the mistakes of those who err.

Imam an-Nawawi rahimahullaah brings a chapter heading "The dead who are praised with good words or who are condemned with bad words" Then he mentioned the hadeeth of Anas bin Malik who said:

A funeral passed by and it was praised with good. Upon this the Messenger of Allaah salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said: It has become certain, it has become certain, it has become certain. And there passed another funeral and it was condemned in bad words. Upon this the Messenger of Allaah salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said: It has become certain, it has become certain, it has become certain. 'Umar said: May my father and mother be ransom for you ! There passed a funeral and it was praised with good terms, and you said: It has become certain, it has become certain, it has become certain. And there passed a funeral and it was condemned with bad words, and you said: It has become certain, it has become certain, it has become certain. Upon this the Messenger of Allaah salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said: He whom you praised with good terms, Paradise has become certain for him, and he whom you condemned with bad words, Hell has become certain for him. You are Allaah's witnesses upon the earth, you are Allaah's witnesses upon the earth, you are Allaah's witnesses upon the earth. [Hadeeth no. 949 Saheeh Muslim, Saheeh al-Bukhaaree 1367, Majmu' Fataawa, 28/371, Saheeh al-Jaami'h 5950].

Imam an-Nawawi comments straight after this hadeeth saying, "If it was said how were the Companions allowed to condemn the funeral (of the evil one) when there is a hadeeth in Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree and other than in Al-Bukhaaree which forbid cursing the dead? The answer being that the forbiddance of cursing the dead is referring to other than the hypocrite and the rest of the disbelievers, and in other than the one who openly portrays his sin and innovation (bid'ah). As for these (ones) then it is not forbidden to mention them with bad words in order to warn against their path, against following their example and against imitating their manner. And this hadeeth clearly shows that the one they condemned with bad words was known to have hypocrisy or similar to what we have mentioned, this is what is correct in answering this matter and in understanding it well along with the hadeeth which prohibits cursing (the dead) and I have clarified this in detail with proof in Kitaab Al-Adkhaar." [7/2197-1/60]

4. In Saheeh Al-Bukhaaree, Imam Al-Bukhaaree has a chapter heading ı Talking about the evil ones amongst the dead [no.1394].
ııı ııı ıııı ıııııı
Ibn Hajr rahimahullaah says: "this (condemnation) could benefit the deadı and if he is sinful openly portraying his sin then there is no gheebah for him (meaning that it is not considered backbiting when refuting him and his errors)ıAnd what is most correct in this affair with regards the dead amongst the disbelievers and sinners is that it is allowed to make mention of their errors to warn against them and to turn the people away from them. The scholars have UNANIMOUSLY AGREED in the allowance of criticizing those who are deserving of criticism regarding the narrators whether they are alive or dead." [Fathul Baari -3/1393 page 330,331 Dar Kutb al-Ilmiyyah]

5. After visiting Sheikh Rabee' ibn Haadi Al-Madkhali this weekend, he added that one should clarify to the people that he does not curse the dead (as Abu Usama khalifah added) and likewise to make mention that the scholars have always refuted the errors of those who have erred. Likewise, these refutations are a mercy for the dead so that people don't follow them in their errors.

6. Sheikh Ibn 'Uthaimeen rahimahullaah was asked about Sayid Qutb and he referred the questioner to Sheikh Rabee's refutations. And he himself said "were the Pious Predecessors quiet over the people of desires and innovation? No they were not quiet. Rather, when the people were trialed with desires, the scholars spoke out clarifying the truth." [Sharh Fath Rabi al-Bariyyah bi Talkhees al-Hamawiyah tape 1 side b].

7. When some of the mistakes of Sayid Qutb were read to Sheikh 'Abdulaziz ibn Baz rahimahullaah, such as saying Musa 'alaihi wa sallam has a fiery nature and that Mu'aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan and "Amr ibn 'Aas radiallaahu 'anhuma used deceit, hypocrisy, lies and treachery to get political positions, Sheikh 'Abdulaziz ibn Baz rahimahullaah said that this speech was vile against Musa 'alaihi wa sallam and the Sahaba radiallaahu 'anhum hence speaking about the dead from those who erred so as not to follow their error.

8. It is also known that Sheikh 'Abdulaziz ibn Baz rahimahullaah would refer questions on personalities to Sheikh Rabee' ibn Haadi al-Madkhali to give a ruling on them.

9. Sheikh Muhammad Nasrud-Deed Al-Albaani rahimahullaah specifically at the back of Sheikh Rabee's book 'Al-'Awasim mima radadtuhu 'ala Sayid Qutb minal Qawasim' which he had in his library that: "All what you have refuted Sayid Qutb with is truth and correctı so may Allaah reward with the best of good O brother (Rabee') with regards your effort in fulfilling the obligatory clarification and showing his ignorance and deviation from Islam."

10. Sheikh Saalih al-Fawzaan said that it is oppression to compare Sayid Qutb with Ibn Hajar and Nawawi rahimahullaah for the latter were scholars clearly showing that Sheikh Saalih Sadlan was mistaken. [Ajwiba al-Mufeeda 'anilManaahij al Jadeedah]

11. Sheikh Abdulmuhsin Al'Abbad warned against the books of Sayid Qutb 9/6/1421 in a letter printed in the book "Bara-at 'Ulamaa al-Ummah min Tazkiyati Ahlil Bid'ah wal Mudama of Esaam as-Sinani p. 135."

12. From these numerous evidences above, the aforementioned scholars (Sheikh Rabee' Al-Madkhali, Sheikh 'Ubayd Al-Jaabiree and Sheikh Muhammad ibn Haadi hafidhahumAllaah) are in agreement with the other scholars mentioned and see that Sheikh Saalih Sadlan was mistaken in what he said above and likewise it was incorrect of Abu Usama Khalifah to add to the words with a significant mistake portraying Sheikh Rabee' in a bad light and that needed to be clarified so that the people are not confused by his mistranslation.

On top of that, he translated the answer Sheikh Sadlan gave on what is Irjaa' incorrectly as he said it means to have harshness whereas Sheikh Saalih Sadlan said it means the opposite ı being too easy and that is why they were considered to have opposed the Khawaarij since the Khawaarij were the ones who were harsh in calling Muslims disbelievers due to major sins.

We ask Allaah, the All-Merciful, to shower us with His mercy and forgive us our shortcomings.
Allaah knows best.

Abdulilah ibn Rabah Lahmami (25/1/1431)

11-01-2010 @ 1:44 PM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified unspecified (Birmingham, UK)
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep 2006
as-salaamu alaikum

Other than the question against Shaykh Rabee' - Goldie was mistranslating all over the place!!

Just to give one example:

Shaykh Sadlaan said: Irjaa is NOT harshness (tashaddud)
Goldie said: Irjaa is NOT tafreet (not negligence)

whats wrong with the man!

11-01-2010 @ 1:57 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Maryam Shehzad ibn Ghazanfar Ali (UK)
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug 2008
SubhaanAllahil Adheem!

BarakAllahu Feekum akh.

Alhamdulillah yet another example of this man's (Abu Usamah) ignorance and revilement of the true scholars.  inshaa Allaah his defenders may read this and open their eyes to the reality of this man.

May Allah (Subhaanahu wa Ta'aala) guide us all to that which He loves and is pleased with, Ameen.

11-01-2010 @ 4:26 PM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified ساجد (Mumbai (India))
Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
More on the errors of our brother in Islam, Aboo Usaamah (may Allah guide us & him)

False Notions of Abu Usaamah
[url=]Sh. Ahmad Baazmool replies to questions related to Abu Usaamah[/url]
[url=]A Reply to Abu Usamah Adh Dhahabi's Slander of Salafi Publications by Shaykh Al Anjaree[/url]
[url=]Q&A regarding modern day callers and the tricks they employ[/url]
[url=]If Speech is Silver, Silence is Golden[/url]

11-01-2010 @ 6:49 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Saqib Punjaabi ( from Yorkshire )
Posts: 34
Joined: Nov 2009
As-Salaamu AlaiKum wa Rahmatullahi wa Baarakatuhu,

Just to say about point 5 above

5. After visiting Sheikh Rabee' ibn Haadi Al-Madkhali this weekend, he added that one should clarify to the people that he does not curse the dead ...

At a slight tangent, i would just like to add that WAllaahi, i have Never Known the Salafis (in general) to curse ANY dead person (not even the most evil of people who try to change the Perfect Deen of Allah).
So it is even more impossible for a Person of ilm and Scholar of Islaam to do so.

Saying that a Salafi curses or revile the dead, is simply not true.
(it is no more true than the Sufis saying that Wahhabis curse and insult the dead  -  a false accusation without evidence).

It was one of the first amazing thing that i noticed about the Salafi brothers whom i am with now,   that when i first came across them,
that for those who corrupted the Deen of Allah  (people such as   Zakariyyah Kandhailvi,   Ahmad Raza Khan Brailvi,   Mirza Ghulaam Ahmed Qadiani,   Sayyid Qutb   and others)...  the brothers used to Stop me from cursing them,
and would tell me to say...

'May Allah give him what he deserves'

or to say

'...his affair is with Allah'


...but Not to Curse or be Unjust, because we are all accountable on the Day of Judgement for that which we say.

- the brothers i am with now, al-hamdulillah - these brothers, their teachings are beautiful.

So i can not believe for a moment that the Salafis anywhere would curse or insult ANY dead person (Muslim or non-Muslim).   -   if the Salafis would do this act (thinking there is nothing wrong with it),   i would leave them (which is to emphasise that i dont blindly follow them,  nor am i a hizbi).

As for a Scholar of Islaam, who teaches the people to not curse the dead,   then this is even more strange and impossible for he, himself, to do this act.


And just to put it into prospective...
I was with the Ahle-Hadeese in Bradford for many years,   and I can bear witness and say that WAllaahi it was common practice amongst many of them (and it still is amongst many of them),  to curse dead and living people (dead people such as   Ahmad Raza Khan Brailvi,   Zakariyyah Kandhailvi,   Mirza Ghulaam Ahmed Qadiani  and others...   and living people like   Peer Ma'roof   and other Brailvi, Deobandi and Sufi Leaders),
-  in 6 years, their full community,  i never heard them said that "May Allah guide so-and-so (living) person"...  rather they would say that if you say this,  then you are too lenient with evil and ahlul bidah..  And Allah Knows Best.

Subhana kAllahuma wabihamdika.  Ash-hadun' laa illaha ila anta, astaghiruka wa atubuillaik.

12-01-2010 @ 4:58 PM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified unspecified (Manchester, UK)
Posts: 359
Joined: Dec 2003

Abu Usaamah's Additions to Shaikh Sadlan's Statement Is Nothing Else but a Methodology of the People of Falsehood

Abdul Ilaah (hafidha-hullaah) stated:

Then Abu Usaama Khalifah added in the translation that Shaikh Rabee should stop 'cursing the dead people....' due to a hadith of the Prophet (sallal-laahu-alayhi-wasallam) mentioning this.  This addition was not mentioned by sheikh Sadlan in the Arabic, so take note.

Shaikh Muhammad Bin Umar Bin Saalim Baazmool (hafidha-hullaah) stated:

'And whenever you find the statement of a muhaqqiq scholar being utilized as proof by a person of bidah and falsehood in seeking to establish his falsehood, and you refer that statement back to its original source; you will not find except that this (person of falsehood) did cut off and separate some part of it from another part.'[1]

We ask Allaah for ikhlaas and thabaat

[1] Wasaa'l Ahlil Baatil Fee Taqreeri Baatilihim; page: 63 | [url=][/url]

The Salafi Centre of Manchester
2 Dudley Street

14-01-2010 @ 10:09 PM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified ساجد (Mumbai (India))
Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
Excerpts of some quotes from Allamah Dr. Saalih al-Fawzaan regarding Syed Qutb which can be listened by clicking [url=]here[/url]
Syed Qutb was Jaahil an ignoramus he does not have knowledge nor recognition nor does he have any proofs for what he says. So to place Imaam Ahmed & Syed Qutb on the same level is oppression.
We know walhamdulillah that the Ulema' from before Syed Qutb and after him opposed Syed Qutb.
Here are some beneficial links regarding this:-
  • [url=]The False Comparison Between Hadith Giants Ibn Hajar, an-Nawawi and 20th Century Ignoramuses[/url]
  • [url=]Imaam Muqbil bin Haadee al-Waadi'ee: Sayyid Qutb and Hasan al-Banna Were Two Imaams of Ahlul Bid'ah[/url]
  • [url=]Imaam Muqbil bin Haadee al-Waadi'ee: The Works of Sayyid Qutb Are To Be Placed In the Closet of the Books of Misguidance[/url]
  • [url=]Imaam Muqbil bin Haadee al-Waadi'ee: A Beginner Who Reads the Books of Qutb Will Not Perceive After Only a Few Days that He Has Become Amongst the Jamaa'at ut-Takfir[/url]
Regarding speaking about the dead, please click [url=]this[/url] pdf for the explanations of [url=]Imaam Ibn Baaz[/url] regarding a few ahadeeth on this topic. Below are some quotes from him
If revilement(of the dead) is for the (purpose) of giving a warning, as in the (case) of an innovator so that he is not taken as an example to be followed, then there is no forbiddance in this; for it is (done) from the angle of warning and not revilement.
It is as if the author (i.e. Imaam Bukhaari) intends that the wicked ones are not included in this prohibition (of revilement of the dead) and this is apparent from what has preceded. And as far as they are warned against, then the intent is not that they are dispraised. And the ulama have consensus on the permissibility of criticizing the unreliable narrators of (hadeeth) whether they are alive or dead.
Finally, please click [url=]here[/url] to read a letter of Shaykh Sa'ad al-Husayn to the Muftee Shaykh Abd al-Aziz Aal al-Shaykh regarding the serious errors of Syed Qutb.

WAllaahu aalam.

22-01-2010 @ 7:37 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Saqib Punjaabi ( from Yorkshire )
Posts: 34
Joined: Nov 2009
Shaikh Saalih al-Luhaidaan praising Shaikh Rabee' (THURSDAY 21st January 2010)

Translated by the one in need of Allaah's Mercy: Omar ibn Ali as-Salafee - May Allaah rectify his affairs.

The noble scholar al-Allaamah ash-Shaikh Saalih al-Luhaidaan (may Allaah preserve him) was asked moments ago (today, Thursday):

I read and I hear in some sittings a campaing slandering the noble scholar as-Shaikh Rabee' ibn Hadee al-Madkhalee and warnings against him, in addition to taking from him (knowledge), and that he is not from Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah, which made me become confused in my affair (of seeking knowledge). So what is the ruling upon this, please clarify? Jazakumullaahu Khair.

He (Sheikh Saalih) answered:

No doubt that he (Shaikh Rabee') is from the people of knowledge, and he is from the students of our scholar Abdul 'Azeez (ibn Baaz) (when they were) in Madinah, and he used to be from the teachers of Madinah (Islamic) University. Hence, I do not know any deviations of him neither in Aqeedah nor in Akhlaaq (mannerism), rather my perception of him that he is good and that he is from the people of Khayr (good), as well as being from those who battle the callers to fitnah.

Then my advice to the youth is to stay away from slandering the scholars, and to stop their tongues (from talking into this affair of slandering scholars). Also let them (the youth) strive to assess themselves (to improve it) and then if they saw in what they thought is a mischief in someone then let them investigate their own selves and to look in it, so if they saw wrong doings within it, they should hurry to rectify it ...                      until the end of his speech.

Taken from a lecture he (the Shaikh) delivered today (21/Jan/2010), called:
ıııı ııııııı ıııııııı ııııııı ııııııı

Reference: (((ıııı)) ıııı ııııııı ıııııııı ııı ııııııı ıııııı ıııı ıııı (( ııııı ..ıııııı))

Thursday 21st January 2010
Translated by Omar ibn Ali as-Salafee

13-03-2010 @ 3:37 AM    Notify Admin about this post
abuz zubayr nasir abdus-salaam ibn bernard (phildelphia)
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