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abdul.azeem
03-12-2009 @ 12:51 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
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Posts: 305
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Talqeen Is Forbidden According To Ibn al-Qayyim



ويروى فيه حديث ضعيف ذكره الطبرانى في معجمه من حديث أبى أمامة قال قال رسول الله

[Kitab-ar-Ruh Page 7]


Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah clearly stated that the hadeeth that has been reported in this regard is daŭef and this is the hadeeth of Abee Umaamah.

However as Imam as-Sanŭnee rahimahullah stated in Subul-us-Salaam [3/157], that Ibn al-Qayyim in Kitab-ar-Ruh only mentioned talqeen that was practised by people as a proof that dead hear the kalaam of the living.

In Zaad-al-Maŭad, Ibn al-Qayyim refuted those who perform talqeen and also quoted the same narration and emphasised that making it Saheeh is incorrect ( meaning, this narration is Daŭef).

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan hafidhahullah said in his article ŭRadd alaa Faisal Muraad Alee Ridhaa..ŭ, Page 8, regarding the hadeeth of at-Talqeen.


حديث التلقين : مروي من حديث أبي أمامة رضي الله عنه ، ضعفه الحفاظ الناقدون ، ومنهم : ابن الصلاح ، والنووي في "المجموع" ، وشيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية في "مجموع الفتاوى" وابن القيم في "زاد المعاد" (1/523) ، تحقيق الأرناؤوط ، والعراقي ، والهيثمي في "مجمع الزوائد" (3/45) ، والحافظ ابن حجر حيث قال : حديث غريب ، وسند الحديث من الطريقين ضعيف جداً .

So the scholars who have pointed out the weakness of this narration from Abee Umaamah include: An-Nawawee in ŭal-Majmooŭ, Ibn Taymiyyah in ŭMajmoo al-Fataawaŭ, Ibn al-Qayyim in ŭZaad al-Maŭad, and in the thahqeeq of arnaŭot (duo) [1/504], al-Iraaqee, al-Haythamee, and al-Hafidh Ibn Hajr said: This hadeeth is ghareeb, and its two chains  (by which it has been reported) are very weak.


Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said in Zaad al-Maŭad, (Volume 1, page 503, thahqeeq of Arnaŭot duo ŭ see attached image) ŭAnd it not for anyone to sit near the grave and recite, nor should he perform talqeen over the dead (after burial) as has been the practise of the people of our time, and as for the hadeeth that has been narrated by at-Tabaraanee in his ŭMujamŭ from the hadeeth of Abee Umaamahŭ ...( he quotes the entire narration which is the same narration he quoted in Kitab-ar-Ruh) and then he said,(1/504), ŭIt is incorrect to raise this hadeeth to the level of saheehŭ

Sarfaraz Khan even in this issue did not quote these clear words of ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah.

This speaks volumes with regards to his adl and his credibility in doing any thahqeeq!


Attached FileNo_Talqeen.jpg (568 Kbytes)

abdul.azeem
04-07-2009 @ 5:17 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
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Al-Albaanee Explains The Jarh Of Imam Ibn Rajab


Translation Checked By Nadeem Ibn Ihsaan Shah



ما من عبد يمر بقبر رجل كان يعرفه في الدنيا فسلم عليه إلا عرفه ورد عليه السلام


[See Silsilathu-d-Daŭeefah #4493]

With regards to this hadeeth, Shaykh al-Albaanee rahimahullah said the following precious words in his Silsilathu-d-Daŭefah...


ما من عبد يمر بقبر رجل كان يعرفه في الدنيا فسلم عليه إلا عرفه ورد عليه السلام


When a man passes by the grave of his brother, whom he knew ( in the dunya ) and sends salaam upon him; (the dead person) returns his salaam and recognizes him.


أخرجه أبو بكر الشافعي في "مجلسان" (6/ 1) ، وابن جميع في "معجمه" (351) ، وأبو العباس الأصم في "الثاني من حديثه" (ق 143/ 2 ورقم 43 - منسوختي) ، ومن طريقه الخطيب في "التاريخ" (6/ 137) ، وتمام في "الفوائد" (2/ 19/ 1) ، وعنه ابن عساكر (3/ 209/ 2 و 8/ 517/ 1) ، والديلمي (4/ 11) ، والذهبي في "سير أعلام النبلاء" (12/ 590) عن عبدالرحمن بن زيد بن أسلم ، عن أبيه ، عن عطاء بن يسار ، عن أبي هريرة مرفوعاً .


(This hadeeth) has been narrated by Aboo Bakr ash-Shaf'ee in his "Majlisaan" (1/6), and Ibn Jamee` in his "Mu'jam" and Abul-Abbaas al-Asam in his "Thaani-Min-Hadeeth" ( Q  #2/143, & #43 ŭ In my manuscript), and ( also narrated) by way of Khateeb ( al-Baghdaadee) in his "Taareekh" (137/6), and Thamaam in "al-Fawaaid" (1/19/2), and (it is also narrated) from him by Ibn Asaakir (2/209/3,1/517/8), and ad-Daylamee (11/4), and adh-Dhahabee in "Siyaar A`laam un-Nubulaa" (590/12) upon Abdar-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam, from his father, from Ataa bin Yasaar from Abee Hurayrah (radhiAllahu anhu) in a marfoo` form [ Meaning the chain that reaches the Messenger of Allah Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam].


قلت : وهذا إسناد ضعيف جداً ؛ عبدالرحمن بن زيد ؛ متروك كما تقدم مراراً ، وساق الذهبي في ترجمته هذا الحديث في جملة ما أنكر عليه .



I (Al-Albanee) say: And this isnaad is very weak, (as) Abdar-Rahman bin Zayd is matrook ( abandoned) as has preceded numerous times (earlier in this book).  And adh-Dhahabee mentioned under his (Abdar Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslamŭs biography) tarjumaa (biography) [note:- Book dealing with tarajim i.e. ŭMeezaanŭ (2/565) ŭ specifically, Abdar Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam whose brothers are Abdullah and Usaamah ŭ Abu Yaŭla said that he heard Yahya ibn Maŭen, Banoo Zayd are nothing, From ad-Daarimee from Ibn Maŭen that he is Daŭef, Bukhaaree said, he is very weak, Nasaaŭe said Daŭef and Ahmad said only Abdullah is thiqah and the other two (Abdar Rahman and Usamah) are Daŭef], this hadeeth, as being amongst those that have been objected ( and rejected by Scholars of hadeeth) from him.

[ Note:- Adh-Dhahabee quoted this is Siyaar volume 12, and rejected this hadeeth as dhaŭef and munqatiŭ. In Meezaan he quoted Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Abd-il-Hakam who heard Imam ash-Shafŭe say that he mentioned this hadeeth to Imam Maalik. Malik asked him who narrated this to you? To which Shafŭe quoted the disconnected chain ( as above) to which Malik responded, that if you were to take hadeeth from Abdur Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam he will narrate to you from his father from Nooh alaihis-salam ŭ See Meezan (2/566)]



وقد توبع عليه ، لكن في الطريق من لا يحتج به ، فقال ابن أبي الدنيا في "كتاب القبور" - باب معرفة الموتى بزيارة الأحياء : حدثنا محمد بن قدامة الجوهري : حدثنا معن بن عيسى القزاز : أخبرنا هشام بن سعد : حدثنا زيد بن أسلم ، عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه قال :
"إذا مر الرجل بقبر أخيه يعرفه فسلم عليه ؛ رد عليه السلام وعرفه ، وإذا مر بقبر لا يعرفه فسلم عليه ؛ رد عليه السلام" .
قلت : وهذا مع كونه موقوفاً على أبي هريرة ؛ فإنه منقطع وضعيف .



Yet  his (Abdar-Rahman bin Zayd) narration has been supported  (with another) but ( from a chain that is not to be used as proof. So Ibn Abee ad-Dunya said, in "Kitab al Quboor" ŭ Chapter (The ability of?) The Dead ( In recognizing) Those Who Visit Them (at their grave): Muhammad bin Qudaamah narrated to us: Ma'een bin Eesa al-Qazaaz narrated to us: Hishaam bin Sa'eed informed us: Zayd bin Aslam narrated to us, upon Abu Hurayrah radhiAllahu Anhu who said:
When a man passes by the grave of his brother, whom he knew ( in the dunya ) and sends salaam upon him; (the dead person) returns his salaam and recognizes him, and when he passes by someone whom he did not know; (the dead person) returns the salaam.
I (al-Albaanee) say: And this (chain) even if it is mawqoof ( stops at Aboo Hurayrah and does not reach the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam), upon Abu Hurayrah; verily! It is Munqati (disconnected) and Da'eef.


أما الانقطاع ؛ فلأن زيد بن أسلم لم يسمع منه ؛ كما قال ابن معين .

وأما الضعف ؛ فهو من الجوهري هذا ؛ قال ابن معين :
"ليس بشيء" . وقال أبو داود :
"ضعيف ، لم أكتب عنه شيئاً قط" .


As for the disconnection(Inqitaaŭ), this is due to Zayd ibn Aslam (who)did not hear from him (Abu Hurayrah) as has been said by Ibn Maŭeen. As for the weakness, then it is from this (narrator called) Al-Jowhari.
Ibn Maŭeen said: ŭHe is nothingŭ.
And Abu Dawud said: ŭWeak (Daŭef), At no time have I ever written anything from himŭ



قلت : ولهذا أورده الذهبي في "الضعفاء" ، وقال في "الميزان" :
"وقد وهم الخطيب وغيره في خلط ترجمته بترجمة محمد بن قدامة بن أعين المصيصي الثقة" . وقال الحافظ ابن حجر في "التهذيب" :
"وميزه ابن أبي حاتم وغيره ، وهو الصواب" .



I (al-Albaanee) say: This is why adh-Dhahabee included him in ŭAd-Duŭafaaŭ and he said in ŭAl-Meezanŭ: ŭAnd Al-Khateeb (al-Baghdaadee) and others erred by mixing his biography  with the biography of Muhammad Ibn Qudaamah who is thiqahŭ.
And al-Hafidh Ibn Hajr said in ŭat-Thahdheebŭ: ŭAnd Ibn abee Haathim and others distinguished him (from Muhammad bin Qudaamah) and that is rightŭ


ثم استدل على ذلك بدليل قوي فليراجعه من شاء ، وقال في "التقريب" :
"فيه لين ، ووهم من خلطه بالذي قبله" .
يعني المصيصي الثقة .


And then from this he (ibn Hajar) derived (based) upon that with a strong proof and whosoever wishes can trace it ( back to the proofs mentioned by Ibn Hajr) and he said in ŭat-Taqreebŭ: ŭ In him is leniency, and those who mistook him for the narrator before him erred in doing so.ŭ  meaning al-Maseesi who is trustworthyŭ.


قلت : وللحديث شاهد من حديث ابن عباس صححه البعض ، فوجب تحرير القول فيه بعد أن يسر الله لي الوقوف على إسناده في مخطوطة المحمودية في المدينة النبوية ، فقال الحافظ ابن عبدالبر في "شرح الموطأ" (1/ 147/ 1) : أخبرنا أبو عبدالله عبيد بن محمد - قراءة مني عليه سنة تسعين وثلاث مئة في ربيع الأول - قال : أملت علينا فاطمة بنت الريان المخزومي المستملي - في دارها بمصر في شوال سنة اثنتين وأربعين وثلاث مئة - قالت : أخبرنا الربيع بن سليمان المؤذن - صاحب الشافعي - : أخبرنا بشر بن بكر ، عن الأوزاعي ، عن عطاء ، عن عبيد بن عمير ، عن ابن عباس قال : قال رسول الله صلي الله عليه وسلم : فذكره .


I (Albaanee) say: And in this hadeeth there is a Shaahid(witness)(support?) from the hadeeth of Ibn Abbas which was authenticated by some (referring to Ibn Abdil Barr primarily and Abdal Haqq Ishbeeli, Suyoothi, Hafidh al-Iraaqi, al-Manaawi, ash-Shawkaanee, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn al-Qayyim {note:- As for Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn al-Qayyim are concerned, they merely stated that Ibn Abdil Barr has authenticated it and they themselves did not declare it to be authentic, proofs to follow}),then it became obligatory to declare and document some speech concerning it when Allah made it easy for me to see its isnaad (chain of narration) in al-Mahmoodiyyah manuscript in the (city of) madeenat-un-Nabawiyyah. And al-Hafidh ibn Abd-il-Barr said in ŭSharh Of Muwattaŭ(1/1/147):
Abu Abdullah Ubayd bin Muhammad informed us ŭ I read this to him in the year three hundred ninety rabeeŭal-Awwal ŭ He said: Faathima bint ar-Rayyan al-Makhzoomee al-Musthamlee dictated to us ŭ at her home in Egypt, in ( the month of) Shawwal, three hundred forty two ŭ She said: Rabeeŭbin Sulaymaan al-Muŭzin informed us ŭ companion of Shafŭe - : (who said), Bishr bin Bakr informed us, upon Awzaaee, upon Ataa, upon Ubayd bin Umayr, upon (the authority of) Ibn Abbas who said: The Messenger of Allah Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said: then he mentioned it (the hadeeth).  

  
قلت : وهذا إسناد غريب ؛ الربيع بن سليمان فمن فوقه ؛ ثقات معروفون من رجال "التهذيب" ، وأما من دونه فلم أعرفهما ، لا شيخ ابن عبدالبر ، ولا المملية فاطمة بنت الريان ، وظني أنها تفردت - بل شذت - بروايتها الحديث عن الربيع بن سليمان بهذا الإسناد الصحيح له عن ابن عباس ؛ فإن المحفوظ عنه إنما هو الإسناد الأول .


I (al-albaanee) say: This isnaad is ghareeb; ar-RabeeŭIbn Sulaymaan and those above him (in the chain) are all trustworthy, known from the men of ŭat-Tahdheebŭ, and as for those below him (in the chain) I do not know either of them, neither the Shaykh of Ibn abd-il-Barr nor the one who dictated, Faathimah bint ar-Rayyan, and I think that she is alone (in reporting this hadeeth), but rather she committed shudhoodh ( Shaadh is when reliable narrators contradict  more reliable narrators) by narrating this hadeeth from Rabeeŭbin Sulaymaan with this saheeh isnaad from him upto Ibn Abbas; For that which is mahfoodh (preserved)(mahfoodh: opposite of shaadh) from him is indeed, only the first chain.


كذلك رواه الحافظ الثقة أبو العباس الأصم السابق الذكر ، قال : حدثنا الربيع بن سليمان : حدثنا بشر بن بكر ، عن عبدالرحمن بن زيد بإسناده المتقدم عن أبي هريرة . وكذلك هو عند تمام من طريقين أخريين عن الربيع به .


And likewise it has been narrated by al-Hafidh, at-
Tiqah (used as a title), Abul-Abbaas al-Asam, whose mention has preceded, that he said: Rabeeŭbin Sulaymaan narrated to us: Bishr bin Bakr narrated to us, upon Abd-ar-Rahman bin Zayd with the chain that has been preceded (mentioned in the beginning) from Abee Hurayrah. And similarly, it is so with Thamaam from two other chains upon Rabeeŭŭ.


ومن هذا التحقيق يتبين أن قول عبدالحق الإشبيلي في "أحكامه" (80/ 1) :

"إسناده صحيح" .
غير صحيح ، وإن تبعه العراقي في "تخريج الإحياء" (4/ 419 - حلبي) ، وأقره المناوي ! وأما الحافظ ابن رجب الحنبلي ؛ فقد رده بقوله في "أهوال القبور" (ق 83/ 2) :


And from this thahqeeq, it is clear that the statement of Abd-il-Haq al-Ishbeelee in his (book) ŭAhkaamŭ (1/80): ŭThis Chain Is Saheehŭ is NOT SAHEEH!, and even if al-Iraaqee followed (him in authenticating it) in ŭThakhreej al-Ihyaaŭ(4/419 ŭ Halabee), and al-Manawee agreed (with him)!
AS FOR AL-HAFIDH IBN RAJAB AL-HAMBALEE; THEN INDEED HE REFUTED THIS WITH HIS STATEMENT IN ŭAhwal al-Quboorŭ(2/83):

quote:

"يشير إلى أن رواته كلهم ثقات ، وهو كذلك ؛ إلا أنه غريب ، بل منكر" .


"( Ibn Rajab said that Abdul Haq al-Ishbeelee) He indicates that those who narrated this narration are are trustworthy and ( Ibn Rajab said) it is so (note:- but he only affirmed trustworthiness for Rabeeŭ and all those above him upto Ibn Abbas), except that it is ghareeb, but rather Munkar ( weak and contradicting that which is authentic)"

[Note:- See Ahwal al Quboor, page 141 with Thahqeeq of Khaalid Abd-al-Lateef. Chapter ŭConcerning Recognition Of The Dead Of Those Who Visit Them And Send Salamŭ ŭ This shows that the Jarh of Ibn Rajab is not Mubŭham but was based on evidence as pointed out by shaykh al-Albaanee rahimahullah ŭ Al-albaanee said in Aayaathul-Bayyinaath,  al-albaanee rahimahullah said: I say: He mentioned it in ŭal-Ahwalŭ (2/83) and it is as he has said (meaning daŭef and munkar) and I have explained it in detail in ŭdh-Daŭefah (4493)]



ثم ساق حديث أبي هريرة مرفوعاً في شهداء أحد : "أشهد أنكم أحياء عند الله ، فزوروهم وسلموا عليهم ، فوالذي نفسي بيده ! لا يسلم عليهم أحد إلا ردوا عليه إلى يوم القيامة" . وأعله بالاضطراب والإرسال ، وسأخرج ذلك فيما يأتي (5221) .
(تنبيه) : سقط من إسناد ابن جميع والذهبي اسم عطاء بن يسار ، فقال الذهبي عقبه :
"غريب ، ومع ضعفه ، ففيه انقطاع ؛ ما علمنا زيداً سمع أبا هريرة" .


Then he mentioned the hadeeth of Abee Hurayrah (which is reported upon him) in a marfoo (form) concerning the martyrs of Uhud: ŭI bear witness that (the martyrs) are alive with Allah, so visit them and send salam upon them, by the One in Whose Hand is my soul...ŭ. The first chain (Ibn Rajab mentioned four chains and al-Alabanee rahimahullah is referring to the first) has Idhthiraab ( contradictory narrations while none of them could be preferred over the others) and irsaal...
Note: Ibn Jameeŭand adh-Dhahabee dropped the name Ataa bin Yasaar (note:- While adh-Dhahabee dropped this in Siyaar, he mentioned Ataa bin Yasaar in al-Meezaan), and adh-Dhahabee said the following at the end: ŭGhareeb, and in it is weakness, and it is disconnected, we do not know of Zayd hearing from Abaa Hurayrahŭ  

[Note:- This narration above has been declared Daŭef by Shaykh Nasir rahimahullah]

وبالجملة ؛ فهو إسناد مضطرب ، ومتنه مختص بالشهداء ، وهذا أشبه من حديث بشر بن بكر" .
قلت : يعني : حديثه المتقدم برقم (4493) :
"ما من عبد يمر بقبر رجل كان يعرفه في الدنيا ، فسلم عليه ؛ إلا عرفه ورد عليه السلام" .



Al-albaanee quoted Ibn Rajab from the following page in his notes on #5521, ŭSo in totality, this isnaad is mudhtharibŭ.., and this chain is similar to the hadeeth of Bishr bin Bakrŭ Al-albaanee said, meaning: the preceding hadeeth #4493.


So now it is upon Sarfaraz Safdar Khan to prove that those two narrators are thiqah and produce a biography. Naming people does not give him any credibility, but rather he should use the principles of science of hadeeth to show us that this hadeeth is saheeh. And even if it was saheeh, it does not prove in anyway that the dead hear the kalaam.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
The proof that Ibn Taymiyyah rahimahullah merely quoted from Ibn Abd-il-Barr is what he said in JaamiŭRasaail:


وقال ابن عبد البر: ثبت عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أنه قال: " ما من رجل يمر بقبر رجل كان يعرفه فيسلم عليه إلا رد الله عليه روحه حتى يرد عليه السلام " .

And ibn abd-il-barr said: It is authentically proven from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam that he said: When a man passes by the grave of his brother, whom he knew ( in the dunya ) and sends salaam upon him; (the dead person) returns his salaam and recognizes him.

قال
ابن عبد البر ثبت عن النبي أنه قال : ما من مسلم يمر على قبر أخيه كان يعرفه في الدنيا فيسلم عليه إلا رد الله عليه روحه حتى يرد عليه السلام فهذا نص في أنه بعينه ويرد عليه السلام

Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said in Kitab-ar-Ruh, page 1, ibn abd-il-barr said: It is authentically proven from the prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam that he said: When a man passes by the grave of his brother, whom he knew ( in the dunya ) and sends salaam upon him; (the dead person) returns his salaam and r


Attached FileAhwal_Quboor1.jpg (777 Kbytes)

abdul.azeem
04-21-2009 @ 12:15 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
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Aaloosi Did Not Object To The Jarh Of Ibn Rajab


وقيل في حديث إبن عبدالبر : إن عبدالحق وإن قال إسناده صحيح إلا أن الحافظ إبن رجب تعقبه وقال : إنه ضعيف بل منكر


Aaloosi said in his famous tafseer Rooh al-ma'aanee:

And it is said concerning the hadeeth (authenticated by ) Ibn Abd-il-Barr: Indeed, even though Abd-al-Haq's (al-Ishbeeli)  declaration that its isnaad is Saheeh, except that al-Haafidh ibn Rajab refuted him and said: its (chain) is weak but rather Munkarŭŭŭŭ


[See Volume 6, Rooh al-Maŭanee of Aaloosi]

abdul.azeem
08-29-2009 @ 6:01 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
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Ibn Taymiyyah Did Not Believe That Dead Hear All The Time Except What Is Mentioned In The Texts



Click the link below to read the details.



>>> Aqeedah Of Imam Ibn Taymiyyah About Dead Hearing <<<

abdul.azeem
08-29-2009 @ 6:07 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Abd Ar Rahman Abd Al Adheem Ibn Faheem ibn Zia ibn Ma'een (KSA/ Bangalore, India)
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Kitab-ar-Ruh Was Authored Prior To Jalaa' al-Af'haam



Imam Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said in Jalaa' al-Af'haam (p. 542), after discussing the hadeeth regarding that which would occur when the soul of a mu'min exits the body (at the time of death) and that which will happen to the soul of a kaafir. He rahimahullah then directs the readers to refer to Kitab-ar-Ruh for a detailed discussion about this hadeeth and its likes.

1) This clearly proves that Kitab-ar-Ruh was written prior to Jalaa' al-Af'haam and it is from the greatest of the proofs utilized by the Scholars that attribute this work to Imam Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah.

2) Ibn al-Qayyim later changed his view in Jalaa' al-Af'haam that even the Messenger of Allah Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam does not hear the salam at his grave. He declared this narration to be "Extremely Strange".

See the link below for details -


Ibn al-Qayyim Does Not Believe That The Prophet Hears Salam At His Grave


Conclusion:- If Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah wanted to defend the matn of that narration, and had he believed that dead hear the kalaam of the living, then he would have directed the readers right after declaring the hadeeth "Ghareeb Jiddan" to Kitab-ar-Ruh!

Wallahu Ta'aala A'lam!


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