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Topic: Distinguishing Between al-Maqdiyy wal-Maqdoor and al-Qadaa wal-Qadr in Loving and Hating What Occurs from al-Qadr
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 abu.iyaad
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| Distinguishing Between al-Maqdiyy wal-Maqdoor and al-Qadaa wal-Qadr in Loving and Hating What Occurs from al-Qadr |
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These are some beneficial quotations regarding the importance of distinguishing between al-maqdiyy wal-maqdoor and al-qadaa wal-qadr in the issue of loving and hating what occurs from what has been decreed by Allaah.
Shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah)
"...And as for al-maqdiyy (that which has been ordained, decreed), then it is of types:
The first type: That which is obligatory to be pleased with,
The second type: that which is forbidden to be pleased with,
The third type: that which is commended to be pleased with.
So for example, sins are from the maqdiyyaat (ordained, decreed matters) of Allaah, and it is unlawful to be pleased with the sins, even if they occur by the qadaa of Allaah, so whoever looked at sins from the point of view of al-qadaa which is the action of Allaah, then it is obligatory for him to be pleased, and that he say, ?Verily, Allaah is Hakeem, and had it not been that His wisdom ordained this, it would not have happened?. And as for that which is ordained (al-maqdiyy), which is the disobedience to Allaah then it is obligatory not to be pleased with it, and it is obligatory that you strive to end this sin, either from yourself, or from others (if it occurs from them).
And there is a type from that which is ordained, which is obligatory to be pleased with such as the legislative obligation, because Allaah judged it kawnan (in terms of His creative ability) and He judged it shar`an, (legislatively), hence it is obligatory to be pleased with it from the point of view of al-qadaa (which is Allaah?s action) and al-maqdiyy (which is what is ordained to occur from it within the creation).
And the third type, it is commendable to be pleased with it, and it is obligatory to have patience upon it, and that is whatever occurs from the masaa?ib (calamities), so whatever befalls of the masaa?ib, it is commendable (mustahabb) to be pleased with it in the view of the majority of the people of knowledge, but it is not obligatory, however being patient upon it is obligatory..." (Majmoo` Fataawaa of Shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen) (2/62):
Shaykh `Abdur-Rahmaan bin Naasir as-Sa`dee (rahimahullaah)
"...And as for the action of the servant, which [consists of actions of] obedience and disobedience, then it is obligatory to be pleased with the [actions of] obedience that occur from him and from others besides him, and to love them, and to hate the [actions of] disobedience that occur from him and from others besides him. So pleasure and hate in these two types both return back to the action of the servant, and this [in turn] returns back to the agreement of the Lord [in either] His love for the [actions of] obedience, or His hate [for the actions] of disobedience, and his separating between them both in the rulings of the world and the hereafter. So it is upon us to agree with Allaah regarding that. And as for the angle of the taqdeer of Allaah of them (these actions of obedience or disobedience), and the action of the Lord (i.e. al-qadaa wal-qadr) from which they emanated, then it is upon us to be pleased with them from this angle, being in agreement with our Lord in that, for He ordained the good and evil and He loved the good and hated the evil that occurs from the servants. So by this detail, the difficulty ceases in this great matter which requires a practical criterion. And whoever did not differentiate with this differentiation, he will fall into various types of error and (aspects of) ignorance." (al-Laa'ee wad-Durar as-Sa`diyyah, p.544) |
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.-=abu.iyaad=-.
-=amjad bin muhammad rafiq=-
--as.salafi--
This message was edited by abu.iyaad on 8-29-03 @ 11:25 AM
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| abu.iyaad
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| Distinguishing Between al-Maqdiyy wal-Maqdoor and al-Qadaa wal-Qadr in Loving and Hating What Occurs from al-Qadr |
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Ibn al-Qayyim (rahimahullaah)
"And as for the speech on "Pleasure with (all of) al-Qadaa", then it is said:
Firstly: By which (revealed) Book, or with which Sunnah, or with which understanding, have you come to know the obligation of being pleased with everything that He ordains and decrees? Rather, (just even) the permissiblity of that, let alone its obligation? This is the Book of Allaah, the Sunnah of His Messenger (sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam), and the proofs of the intellect, and there is nothing in them of the command to that, and nor to its permissibility.
Rather, from al-maqdiyy (the ordained matters) is that which He is pleased with, and from it is that which angers Him and causes Him to hate. So therefore, we do not be pleased with every qadaa, just like the One who ordains His decrees, free is He from imperfection, is not pleased with it. Rather from al-qadaa is that which angers Him, just like those from the (various) decreed entities (i.e. beings) are those upon whom anger and hatred befalls, and who are cursed and rebuked.
And it is said, secondly: There are two matters, "qadaa", and this is an action (fi`l) established with the Self of the Lord, the Exalted, and "maqdiyy", and this is the performed action (maf`ool), separate from Him. So al-qadaa, all of it is goodness, and it is justice and wisdom, hence, all of it is to be pleased with. And al-maqdiyy is of two types. From it is that which is to be pleased with, and from it is that which is not to be pleased with. And this is the reply of the one who said that al-fi`l (the action) is other than al-maf`ool (that which is performed), and that al-qadaa is other than al-maqdiyy.
And as for the one who said that al-fi`l is the very same thing as al-maf`ool, and al-qadaa is the very same thing as al-maqdiyy, then it is not possible for him to reply with this answer.
And it is said, thirdly: al-Qadaa has two aspects, the first of them: Its relationship to the Lord, the Exalted, and its ascription to Him. So from this angle, all of it is to be pleased with. The second angle: Its relationship with the servant, and its ascription to him. So from this angle, it is divided into that which is to be pleased with and that which is not to be pleased with.
An example of that: Taking (someone's) life - for example - it has two considerations. So from the (angle) that Allaah has decreed it, and has ordained it, written and willed it, and has made it to be the appointed term for the (one) killed, and the end of his life, one is pleased with it. And from the (angle) that it occurred from the killer, and he embarked upon it, and earned it, and proceeded upon it out of his choice, and disobeyed Allaah with his action, then one is angered by it, and it does not please him." (al-Madaarij 1/268-169) |
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.-=abu.iyaad=-.
-=amjad bin muhammad rafiq=-
--as.salafi--
This message was edited by abu.iyaad on 8-29-03 @ 11:27 AM
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| abu.iyaad
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| Distinguishing Between al-Masaa'ib and al-Ma`aayib in Loving and Hating What Occurs from the Maqdiyyaat |
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Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said, clarifying some doubts of those went astray on the issue of al-Qadr:
"And as for the third matter, then it is his saying, "Concerning what has been reported about pleasure with Allaah's qadaa, from the narrations and verses (of the Qur'aan), so if they are sins that occur by other than Allaah's qadaa, then it is impossible and it is a revilement upon Tawheed, and if they occur by Allaah, the Most High's qadaa , then hating and disliking them, is hate and dislike of the qadaa of Allaah, the Most High".
Then it is said: There is not in the Book of Allaah, nor in the Sunnah of Allaah's Messenger, any aayah or hadeeth which commands the servants that they be pleased with every decreed matter (maqdiyy muqaddar) from the actions of the servants, the good and the evil from them. And this is a foundational principle that ought to be given concern. However it is upon the people that they are pleased with whatever Allaah commanded, and it is not for anyone to be angered by what Allaah has commanded. The Most High said:
 |  | An-Nisa (4):65 |
ÝóáÇó æóÑóÈøößó áÇó íõÄúãöäõæäó ÍóÊøóìó íõÍóßøöãõæßó ÝöíãóÇ ÔóÌóÑó Èóíúäóåõãú Ëõãøó áÇó íóÌöÏõæÇú Ýöí ÃóäÝõÓöåöãú ÍóÑóÌðÇ ãøöãøóÇ ÞóÖóíúÊó æóíõÓóáøöãõæÇú ÊóÓúáöíãðÇ But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam)) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. |
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And the Most High said:
| | Muhammad (47):28 |
Ðóáößó ÈöÃóäøóåõãõ ÇÊøóÈóÚõæÇ ãóÇ ÃóÓúÎóØó Çááøóåó æóßóÑöåõæÇ ÑöÖúæóÇäóåõ ÝóÃóÍúÈóØó ÃóÚúãóÇáóåõãú That is because they followed that which angered Allâh, and hated that which pleased Him. So He made their deeds fruitless. |
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And He said:
| | At-Tawbah (9):59 |
æóáóæú Ãóäøóåõãú ÑóÖõæúÇú ãóÇ ÂÊóÇåõãõ Çááøåõ æóÑóÓõæáõåõ æóÞóÇáõæÇú ÍóÓúÈõäóÇ Çááøåõ ÓóíõÄúÊöíäóÇ Çááøåõ ãöä ÝóÖúáöåö æóÑóÓõæáõåõ ÅöäøóÇ Åöáóì Çááøåö ÑóÇÛöÈõæäó Would that they were contented with what Allâh and His Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) gave them and had said: "Allâh is Sufficient for us. Allâh will give us of His Bounty, and (also) His Messenger (from alms, etc.). We implore Allâh (to enrich us)." |
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And the mention of the Messenger here (in this aayah) explains that the giving (mentioned in the verse) is the religious, legislative giving (al-eetaa ad-deenee ash-shari`yy) not the decreed creational giving (al-eetaa al-kawnee al-qadariyy). And he (sallAllaahu `alayhi wasallam) said in the saheeh hadeeth, "He has tasted the sweetness of Imaan who is pleased with Allaah as Lord, and Islaam as a religion and Muhammad as a prophet." [Muslim in Kitaab ul-Imaan].
And it is desirable that a person is pleased with whatever Allaah has decreed upon him of calamities (masaa'ib) which are not sins, such as testing him with poverty, or disease, or lowliness, or harm from the creation. For patience upon calamities is obligatory, and as for being pleased with them, then it is legislated. However, is it obligatory or commended? Upon two sayings of the associates of Ahmad and others, the most correct of them is that it is commended (mustahabb) and not obligatory (waajib).
And it is known that the strongest handhold of Imaan is loving for the sake of Allaah and hating for the sake of Allaah, and Allaah has commanded us that we enjoin the good, love it, and be pleased with it, and love its people. And that we forbid the evil, hate it, and be angered by it, and hate its people, and that we strive against them with our hands, tongues and hearts.
So how can it be presumed that there is nothing in the creation what we hate and dislike?!..." Majmoo` al-Fataawaa (8/191-192) |
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.-=abu.iyaad=-.
-=amjad bin muhammad rafiq=-
--as.salafi--
This message was edited by abu.iyaad on 8-31-03 @ 11:28 AM
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| oummou.assia
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bissmillahi ar rahmani ar rahim
assalamou 'alaykoum wa rahmatoullahi wa barakaatouh
Jazakoum Allahou khairan for this most precious research.
I would like to have a distinct definition of both words "QADAA" and "QADAR", because from what i understand, is that QADAA is what Allah predecrees, what the Kalaam has written in the Tablets by His will, before everything was created ( i think there is a khilaaf on the subject with the 'Arsh), but correct me if i am wrong.
Also i have a pbroblem understanding the first qawl in the Ibnul Qayyim's part:
as for me i got about the QADAA that we need to be totally satisfied with it as it comes from Allah 'azza wa jall, but the maqdii (things done by the creation), then if it is sins and all the things that Allah hates and forbids, then we need to hate this action, but not the fact that it is from the Qadaa of Allah. i quote the different posts you sent:
- from ash shaykh al 'outheymin (rahimahou llah):
"it is unlawful to be pleased with the sins, even if they occur by the qadaa of Allaah"
"whoever looked at sins from the point of view of al-qadaa which is the action of Allaah, then it is obligatory for him to be pleased"
- from ash shaykh Sa'di (rahimahou llah):
" And as for the angle of the taqdeer of Allaah of them (these actions of obedience or disobedience), and the action of the Lord (i.e. al-qadaa wal-qadr) from which they emanated, then it is upon us to be pleased with them from this angle, being in agreement with our Lord in that, for He ordained the good and evil and He loved the good and hated the evil that occurs from the servants"
- from ash shaikhoul Islam (rahimahou llah):
" However it is upon the people that they are pleased with whatever Allaah commanded, and it is not for anyone to be angered by what Allaah has commanded."
and also the second and third sayings of shaykh ibnoul qayyim go along that, but the first one gives me a pblm with the phrase:
"So therefore, we do not be pleased with every qadaa, just like the One who ordains His decrees, free is He from imperfection, is not pleased with it."
what i understood myself from the previous quotes is that WE need to be totally satisfied with the QADAA, not all of the maqdii (meaning the actions of the slaves), as it is the will of Allah, but Allah has decreed things that He hates like sins. So we hates sins that are comitted, but not the fact that they are part of the QADAA.
please clear up my view wa barakallahou fikoum. 'afwan for the long explanation.
Also could you explain in a futur post the difference between mashiyatou Llahi wa iraadihi.
wa assalamou 'alaykoum wa rahmatoullahi wa barakaatouh.
" al haqqou min rabbikoum" (Ali 'Imran).
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| abu.iyaad
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As Salaamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhu
Jazaakillaahu khayran for your question. Inshaa'Allaah I will answer it when I have some spare time in the next day or two, I am tied up right now. As for the issue of the tafreeq between al-Iraadah (Wish) on the one hand and ar-Ridaa (Pleasure) and al-Mahabbah (Love) on the other, then I intended to put articles on this issue as well, so expect them within the next week or so inshaa'Allaah, as this is also an important topic that needs to be understood.
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.-=abu.iyaad=-.
-=amjad bin muhammad rafiq=-
--as.salafi--
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| abu.iyaad
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As Salaamu `Alaykum wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhu
Regarding this issue then there is no difficulty in this inshaa'Allaah. This is because Ibn al-Qayyim (rahimahullaah) was discussing numerous ways to reply to the claim that we must be pleased with everything from al-Qadaa. So he explained that there are three ways, or angles to respond to this.
It would be easier if we leave the first angle (within which there is the wording which you have asked about and which has caused some difficulty) and instead go directly to the second and third angles he mentioned. Once we understand these latter two angles, it will make it easier for us to understand why Ibn al-Qayyim said in the first angle: | quote: |
| So therefore, we do not be pleased with every qadaa, just like the One who ordains His decrees, free is He from imperfection, is not pleased with it. Rather from al-qadaa is that which angers Him, just like those from the (various) decreed entities (i.e. beings) are those upon whom anger and hatred befalls, and who are cursed and rebuked. |
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So if we leave this statement which occurs in the first of the three angles that Ibn al-Qayyim discusses, and go directly to the second and third angles, we find that he has explained the following:
a) that one way to look at it is to consider "qadaa" to be an action of Allaah, and the respective "maqdiyy" to be the performed action arising from the servants. This is the same angle that both Shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen and Shaykh as-Sa`dee (rahimahumalLaah) focused upon, in what has been quoted from them.
b) that another way to look at it is to divide al-Qadaa into two aspects i) one that relates to Allaah, and its ascription to Him, and ii) one that relates to the servant and its ascription to him. Therefore, there is al-Qadaa as it relates to Allaah, which is Allaah's action and also al-Qadaa as it relates to the servant which is the servant's action. Ibn al-Qayyim says that al-Qadaa as it relates to the servant is divided into two, that which is to be pleased with and that which is not to be pleased with, and he gives an example of a man killing another person.
Once we understand these two ways of addressing the issue, and the way in which the terminologies of al-qadaa and al-maqdiyy can be used (to refer either to the actions of Allaah or the actions of the creation, or to refer to them both, collectively in the case of al-qadaa), then returning back to Ibn al-Qayyim's speech under question, it should remove the difficulty: | quote: |
| Rather, from al-maqdiyy (the ordained matters) |
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[so here Ibn al-Qayyim is speaking about what occurs in the creation, as it relates to the actions of the servants, and he has used the word al-maqdiyy to refer to what occurs within the creation, what is performed by them] | quote: |
| ...is that which He is pleased with, and from it is that which angers Him and causes Him to hate. So therefore, we do not be pleased with every qadaa... |
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[so here he is using qadaa in the singular, and referring by it what relates to an individual action or occurrence from the servant from what is ordained and decreed, and he is not referring uniquely to the action of Allaah in ordaining it - and this is from the angle of b) mentioned above in that qadaa can refer to Allaah's action (in willing or creating) or qadaa can refer to the particular action performed by the creation or what has occurred in the creation, thus from this angle, we do not be pleased with every qadaa] | quote: |
| ...just like the One who ordains His decrees, free is He from imperfection, is not pleased with it. Rather from al-qadaa is that which angers Him... |
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[and what he means by al-qadaa here, is just like what he explained in b) above, and al-qadaa here collectively refers to everything which occurs from al-qadaa wal-qadr, including both the actions of Allaah, and the actions of the servants, and thus Allaah is not pleased with al-qadaa as it relates to the creation and is ascribed to it, that from it which entails disobedience to Him]
Therefore, Ibn al-Qayyim, in the use of terminology here in this section, has used al-maqdiyy and al-qadaa together, combining both angles mentioned above [i.e. in a) and in b)]. By al-maqdiyy he meant what is performed by the creation, and by al-qadaa he meant all of what enters into it, including both Allaah's action (of willing and creating) and what occurs in the creation from the servants.
So inshaa'Allaah, there is no difficulty in this, and it is really a matter of how the terms are used and applied. Ibn al-Qayyim made it clear that there are two ways or angles to look at it this issue. Firstly, to treat al-qadaa as being Allaah's action and al-maqdiyy to be the performed action by the creation, separate from Allaah's action. And secondly, to divide al-qadaa into that which relates to Allaah's action, and that which relates to the action of the servant. It follows from the first angle that we are pleased with all of al-qadaa and regarding al-maqdiyy, we may or may not be pleased with it, it depends and follows on from whether Allaah is pleased with it or not. And it follows from the second angle that we are not pleased with everything that occurs from al-qadaa, because al-qadaa here is used to refer to the sum whole of what enters into al-qadaa wal-qadr, which includes the actions of Allaah (in willing, creating) and the actions of the servants (in performing and acting).
So in essence, to put it briefly, the word al-qadaa has been used by Ibn al-Qayyim in a specific sense, to refer to Allaah's action (in which case we are pleased with all of it), and to separate it from al-maqdiyy, and it has been used in a general and broader sense, to refer to both Allaah's action and the action of the servant (in which case we are not pleased with all of it).
And Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah also mentions these two approaches [i.e. those mentioned by Ibn al-Qayyim in a) and b) above] in the form of poetry:
æóÞóÇáó ÝóÑöíÞñ : äóÑúÊóÖöí ÈöÞóÖóÇÆöåö æóáóÇ äóÑúÊóÖöí ÇáúãóÞúÖöíøó ÃóÞúÈóÍó ÎóÕúáóÉö
æóÞóÇáó ÝóÑöíÞñ äóÑúÊóÖöí ÈöÅöÖóÇÝóÉö Åáóíúåö . æóãóÇ ÝöíäóÇ ÝóäõáúÞöí ÈöÓóÎúØóÉö
And a group said: We are pleased with His Qadaa but we are not pleased with the Maqdiyy [that is] the most repugnant trait
And [another] group said: We are pleased [with Qadaa] as it relates to Him and as for what [occurs] from us, then we face it with displeasure
And ash-Shaykh as-Sa`dee has some nice commentary on this particular piece of poetry in which Shaykh ul-Islaam outlines four answers regarding the issue of being pleased with the Qadaa of Allaah, which, given time, I will post here on this thread, inshaa'Allaah.
I hope this clarifies the matter, if not please ask further.
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.-=abu.iyaad=-.
-=amjad bin muhammad rafiq=-
--as.salafi--
This message was edited by abu.iyaad on 9-19-03 @ 11:20 PM
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| oummou.assia
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Member
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bissmillahi ar rahmani ar rahim,
assalamou 'alaykoum wa rahmatoullahi wa barakaatouh.
Barak Allahou fikoum it was just this point that i had not seen: the two acceptations of "AL QADAA". So now it is totally clear wa liLlahi al hamd.
Now,you did not specify the difference between "al Qadaa" wal "Qadar", which i am higly in need of, wa jazakoum Allahou khairan.
i wrote:
"because from what i understand, is that QADAA is what Allah predecrees, what the Kalaam has written in the Tablets by His will, before everything was created ( i think there is a khilaaf on the subject with the 'Arsh), but correct me if i am wrong."
and would really like correction to my comprehension.
wa assalamou 'alaykoum wa rahmatoullahi wa barakaatouh.
" al haqqou min rabbikoum" (Ali 'Imran).
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| oummou.assia
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Joined: Sep 2002
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bismillahi ar rahmani ar rahim
assalamou 'alaykoum
REMINDER...
" al haqqou min rabbikoum" (Ali 'Imran).
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| mohammad.amriki
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Member
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ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã
Al-Faqeeh, Al-Alaammah Muhammad ibnu Saalih Al 'Uthaymeen (ÑÍãå Çááå ÊÚáì) said:
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"When separately mentioned either one means the other, but when stated together, Al-Qadaa' and Al-Qadar differ in their meanings. For example, when it is generalized, Al-Qadar encompasses Al-Qadaa' and vice vera. But when it is said, 'Al-Qadaa' wal Qadar' , then Al-Qadar means the predestination of things, and when the predestined matter occurs, it is then called Qadaa' . [1,2]
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[1] Majmou'Al-Fatawa, V.2, PP. 79-80. Publised by Daar Al-Watan, 1993, Riyadh, KSA.
[2] Quote taken from the book "Fate in Islaam" by Saleh As-Saleh.
This message was edited by mohammad.amriki on 10-17-03 @ 4:00 AM
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| abu.iyaad
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JazaakAllaahu khayran for that quote from Shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen. And what is similar to this is what occurs in Lisaan ul-`Arab: | quote: |
The intent behind "al-Qadr" is "at-taqdeer" (estimation, determination, calculation etc.) and that behind "al-Qadaa" is "al-Khalq" (creation), just as the saying of the Most High (41:12):
ÝóÞóÖóÇåõäøó ÓóÈúÚó ÓóãóÇæóÇÊò
Meaning, created them.
So al-Qadaa and al-Qadr are two mutually binding affairs, one of them does not separate from the other, because one of them is at the level of the base, foundation, and this is al-Qadr, and the other is at the level of the building, and this is al-Qadaa. So whoever desired separation between them both, then he has desired the destruction of the building, and its demolition." |
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Lisaan ul-`Arab (15/186) by way of "al-Imaan bil-Qadaa wal-Qadr" (p.16) compiled by Muhammad bin Ibraaheem al-Hamad. |
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ÃÈæ ÚíÇÖ ÃãÌÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ÑÝíÞ ÇáÓáÝí .-=abu.iyaad=-.
-=amjad bin muhammad rafiq=-
--as.salafi--
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| oummou.assia
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Member
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bissmillahi ar rahmani ar rahim
assalam alaykoum
just to point out that there is a fine and clear explanation by Shaykh al 'Outhaymin (rahimahou llah) about al iman bil qadar, and a refutation about the "moukhaalifoun lilhaq fi al qadaa wal qadar wa ar rad 'alayhim", as well as a point on "iraadatou llah",
all that in the book "SHARH LOUM'AT AL I'TIQAAD", pages 44-50 (pub.: daar al watan lin-nashr")
This book is anyway excellent to have an overview of the 'aqidah sahiha, plus with the roudood/ devient sects, and it is short, and very clear.
" al haqqou min rabbikoum" (Ali 'Imran).
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27-08-2003 @ 9:41 PM
