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Topic: The one who died in place of 'Isa (alayhe'salaam) (?)...
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 faruq.as-salafi
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Member
Posts: 259
Joined: Sep 2002
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As-Salaamu' Alaikum.
In a case of giving da'wah and from my personal research (back-in-the-day in jahiliyyah), I found that there was a man named Melkezidek who died on the cross, or what-have-you, in place of the Prophet 'Isa (Jesus) (may Allah's peace be upon him). This evidence, for me, destroyed this 'usool (fundamental principal) that is from the basic 'usool of Christianity and a proof for da'wah that Allah did not mertalize his prophets and messengers the way they've been cohorsed to think so true. I can't seem to find this evidence again anywhere! Is there a verse from the Qur'an where Allah mentioned this individual and the fact that he died in place of 'Isa (alayhe 'salaam)?
"Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat (the twelve sons of Ya'qub [Jacob]), and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Isa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."
Al-Baqarah (2):136
And (remember) when Allah said:"O 'Isa! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that that 'Isa(Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad, sal'Allahu'alayhe wa salaam, 'Isa(Jesus), Musa (Moses),etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Qur'an] till the Day of Ressurection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."
Aali Imran (3):55
Verily, the likeness of 'Isa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him fron dust, then (He) said to him:"Be!" -and he was.
Aali Imran (3):59
Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Isa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Isa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity say: (O Muhammad, sal'Allahu' alayhe wa Salaam)"Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves-then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie."
Aali Imraan (3):61
Verily! This is the true narrative [about the story of 'Isa (Jesus)], and La-ilaha-ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the One and the Only True God, Who has neither a wife nor a son). And indeed, Allah is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
Aali Imran (3):62
Baarak-Allaahu Feekum - wa sal-Allaahu wa-sallam 'alaa Nabiyyinaa Muhammad,
was-Salaam 'alaykum wa-Rahmatullaahe wa-Barakaatuh.
Abu' Salafi'ayn
-From As-Salafiyoon in Columbus-
This message was edited by faruq.as-salafi on 11-30-02 @ 3:47 AM
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| faruq.as-salafi
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Member
Posts: 259
Joined: Sep 2002
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As-Salaamu' Alaikum wa' Rahman tu'Lah ya'Salafiyoon.
I found this ayah in Suratun-Nisaa...
And because of their saying (in boast), "We killed Messiah 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah," -but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Isa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)].
An-Nisa (4):157
Can anyone bring the proof if or if not, that man, his name was Melkezidek?
Baarak-Allaahu Feekum - wa sal-Allaahu wa-sallam 'alaa Nabiyyinaa Muhammad,
was-Salaam 'alaykum wa-Rahmatullaahe wa-Barakaatuh.
Abu' Salafi'ayn
-From As-Salafiyoon in Columbus-
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| vtorres
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Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 2002
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assalamu alaikum
InshaAllah i can be of some help.
Malchizadek was the name of a high priest in Christianity. He is mentioned in the Bible a few times with Abraham.His name means the king of righteousness. Back then if you were a high priest it meant you were one who could communicate with God, or intercede for others. They didnt believe that he was immortal, but they believed that his priesthood was immortal. So after he died he was pretty much a legendary figure, even an apparition to some. I used to read into christianity and judaism before I accepted islaam and I never saw any clear proof that he was the one who replaced or was around Isa at that time. But I did read some opinions and say so's that he was the holy ghost or the father. Isa was called Malchizadek and was said to be from the " Order of Malchizadek" in the bible.. meaning that he was also a high priest.
This message was edited by vtorres on 11-30-02 @ 11:17 AM
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| Moosaa
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Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
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At-Tabaree (#10790, 4/353 of Al-Kutub Al-?Ilmiyyah?s printing) relates with his chain to a former Christian who accepted Islaam that his name was:
سرجس
?Sarjas? or "Sirjis" or "Surjas", I don't even know how that would be vowelled, wallaahu A?lam. And of course it takes the hukm of the israa'eeliyyaat narrations that we neither confirm nor deny except with evidence.
This Melchezidek stuff reminds me of Dr. York?s teachings, he even claimed that this was one of his names when he takes his angel form, ?alayhe maa yastahiqq.
Moosaa
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سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
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| vtorres
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Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 2002
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This message was edited by vtorres on 12-1-02 @ 10:55 AM
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| vtorres
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Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 2002
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assalamu alaikum
I read about Barrabus also. Several books and some of the manuscripts say that Barabbas' name was Jesus Barabbas. It is believed that the name Iesous was deliberately left out of the Bible for reverential considerations. They did not want the name Jesus associated with anyone who was a sinner.This Jesus barrabus was a known murderer and thief.
It was said that Barrabus was imprisoned the same time that Isa was imprisoned.To appease the Jews it was the custom of Pontius Pilate to release one prisoner a year at "Passover" time. Pilate saw no fault in Jesus and proposed that he be released but the Jews demanded Barabbas instead. So then pilate washed his hands and told the people he was innocent of his blood. So its strange that the people were given a choice on whom to release Jesus Barabbas the sinner, or jesus Barrabus " the son of God" and they chose The sinner. And this is one reason why the christians use that sentence " Jesus died for our sins" claiming this since they believe he died for Barrabus' sins.
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30-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
30-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM