SalafiTalk.Net » General Discussion
» Joint Bayan Of Shaikh Rabi' and Jordanians
Search ===>

Part 1Part 2Part 3Part 4Part 5Part 6Part 7Part 8Part 9 • Part 10 • Part 11 • Part 12

 Moderated by Admin  Reply to this Discussion Start new discussion << previous || next >> 
Posted By Topic: Joint Bayan Of Shaikh Rabi' and Jordanians

book mark this topic Printer-friendly Version  send this discussion to a friend  new posts last

17-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 67
Joined: Aug 2002

All praise is due to Allaah, and prayers and salutations upon the Messenger of Allaah, his Family, his Companions and whoever allied with him.

To proceed:

This blessed knowledge-based gathering that was completed on the night of Sunday 12/9/1423H, taking place in the house of our esteemed teacher, the Shaikh, Abu Muhammad Rabee' bin Haadee al-Madkhalee - may Allaah increase him from His excellence - and, it took place in his presence, may Allaah preserve him, and also in the presence of all of the following:

Shaykh Saleem al-Hilaalee, Shaykh Muhammad Moosaa Nasr, Shaykh Alee al-Halabee, Shaykh Muhammad 'Umar Bazmul - may Allaah grant all of them success in every good.

And the knowledge and manhaj based participation was completed in numerous affairs. The most important of them was the [presence of] resolute certainty that these differences - that occurred amongst the Salafiyyeen - and there does not cease to remain aspects from them - then they are differences from the whispering of Shaytaan, and all [of those present], by the praise of Allaah, felt the effects of these evil differences and the dangerous after effects.

And we praise Allaah, the Most High, for what He has granted success and made easy in ending these tribulations, their effects, the differences (therein) and their harms, during this gathering, by His praise, the Sublime.

And the agreement was reached in numerous matters, the most important of them, and the very first of them, was emphasis and adherence to ending this fitnah, and closing its doors, and its reasons.

And from those knowledge and manhaj based affairs, which were agreed upon by all of those present were:

Firstly: That the Khabar ul-Aahaad about whose authenticity is not differed over by the Scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah is a khabar that amounts to knowledge and action (together) and it is used as argument in [affairs] of aqeedah and ahkaam, without differentiating [between them]. And that the saying of the one who mentions it with dhann (speculation) and what is like it, then it is a saying that opposes, absolutely and without exception, the preponderant truth from the sayings of Ahl ul-Hadeeth, and that the one who speaks with this, speaks with the saying of the Ash'ariyyah and is influenced by them.

Secondly: That whose mention has been repeated, of the issues of "Mujmal and Mufassal", and whatever relates to it. The truth concerning it is as follows:

The issue of "Mujmal and Mufassal" - with this usage - is not investigated into except in the words of Allaah, the Most High, and His Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam). And the investigation of this matter, with respect to the words of the scholars is called "Itlaaqaat al-Ulamaa" (the Absolutions of the Scholars) - as Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah (rahimahullaah) has mentioned.

An erroneous absolution which is [nevertheless] clarified and explained by other speech [emanating] from the same person [elsewhere], is treated in the following way:

a) Declaring this absolution to be an error, in accordance with its nature, [which is] either an innovation or an error.

b) Accepting this clarification and explanation (i.e. on behalf of the one who made this erroneous absolution, he must accept this clarification and explanation of his error)

c) Not passing a judgement upon this erring one who made this absolution that he is an Innovator 'ayniyyan (i.e. in person, specifically), unless he is a person of Innovation, or a person of desires.

d) And as for a Salafee student of knowledge who is well known with for his Salafiyyah and his [sound] manhaj, then when he falls into anything of that, then we declare him to be in error in his absolution, and we make what he is manifestly correct in to be the major consideration. Alongside advising him, reminding him, explaining the truth to him, unless their appears his stubborn opposition and his persistence [in this falsehood] is unveiled.

e) It is not permissible to take this issue of "Itlaaq al-Ulamaa" as a means to accommodate the sayings of the well-known Innovators like Sayyid Qutb and others.

Thirdly: Evil speech concerning the Companions of Allaah's Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) is broad, vast misguidace, and it is not permissible for a Muslim, whoever it may be, to accept this (speech) or to make it a light matter. And the one who from whom a word appears, and from which anything of belittlment of them (radiallaahu anhum) can be perceived, then it is a definitive obligation upon him to recant from it, to seek forgiveness from Allaah concerning it, and not to derive excuses about it. For the issue of the Companions (radiallaahu anhum) is a serious and important matter and they (radiallaahu anhum), are the trustworthy (carriers) of the Sharee'ah and the guardians of the religion. And this is a door that is obligatory to be closed, in fulfilment of the saying of the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), "When my companions are mentioned, then withhold".

Fourthly: The Jamaa'aat of Hizbiyyah that are scattered in the plain, such as Jamaa'at al-Ikhwaan al-Muslimeen, and Jamaa'at at-Tableegh, and Hizb ut-Tahreer and Jamaa'at ul-Jihaad and the Takfeeriyyeen, and the Surooriyyeen, and the Qutbiyyeen, and whoever is like them - they are Jamaa'aat that are outside of the Sunnah, and they are in opposition to the manhaj of the Salaf, due to what is known of their deviations, misguidances. So it is not permissible to defend them, in any shape, such as [the claim of] ta'seel (laying down foundations to understand these affairs), or other than that. And as for the claim of some of the people that the manhaj of Ahl us-Sunnah is vast, then it is a futile statement on account of what is built upon it of entering Ahl ul-Bid'ah into the Sunnah, and belittling the affair of their deviations and aspects of misguidance.

Fifthly: The manhaj of Ahl us-Sunnah is an precise, established manhaj. Its people traverse upon it in a way that is deeply-rooted and firm, in the methodology of deduction of proof, and the principle of proper knowledge-based conception (of the affairs), and the foundation of walaa and baraa. As for the Innovators, and the Hizbiyyoon, in all their varying groups, then they are not from it, and it (the manhaj) is not from them. [This is] alongside our zeal and aspiration that they return to it (this manhaj), and abandon what they are upon, and the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, "And my Ummah will split into thirty-three sects, all of them are in the Fire except one".

Sixthly: "at-Tathabbut" (verification), in the view of the people of knowledge is a precise, established manhaj. It has its forms, and angles (of approach). As for rejecting the truth and the evidences for what is correct, with the claim of "Tathabbut (verification)", then it is a newly-arisen path, which opposes the manhaj of the Sunnah, and the path of those who are upon it. And the claim of not accepting the information (khabar) except with direct hearing of the one who said it (originally) is a futile claim, which is rejected by the methodologies of the Ulamaa, and their specific detailed ways. And the paths of accepting a report, are numerous and are well known. And these, all of them, are built upon the knowledge-based proof, and the clear Sharee'ah evidence.

Seventhly: The saying of some of the people, "We correct, but we do not disparage" is a falsehood with certainty. And Ahl ul-Hadeeth have not ceased, from before and afterwards, disparaging (making jarh) of those who deserve to have jarh made upon them, using knowledge-based principles, and Sharee'ah foundations. And also amongst this (falsehood) - but in another garment - [of] misguidance - is the saying of the one who said, "We cooperate in that which we agree, and we pardon each other in that which we disagree".

This is a collection of what was researched into by the Mashaayikh, and they, and all praise is due to Allaah, are agreed upon these knowledge-based principles, both before and after, and they all affirmed them, and verified the [correct] speech concerning them, a great deal. All out of eagerness to unite the word, and out of the firm aspiration in cutting of the path in front of those who lie in wait, those who plot and plan from the Hizbiyyeen and their likes. And also as a support of the Da'wah Salafiyyah, and aiding and helping its callers and its scholars.

And built upon all of this, we advise, in ending, with two pieces of advice:

Firstly: That everyone who opposes these qawaa'id (principles), it is obligatory upon them to return to the clear truth, and that he returns (with penance) to this sound nahj (way, manhaj) - whoever that may be - with clarity (wudooh), and with explanation and clarification, and open manifestation of the truth, without any talbees (deception) or tadlees (fraud, swindle).

Secondly: That the Salafee students of knowledge return back to what we had enjoined upon them, of seeking knowlege, and spreading the Sunnah, and to busy themselves in calling to the truth, and to have mutual affection, mutual aid and co-operation upon birr and taqwaa - without being occupied in qeel and qaal, from that which Shaytaan rejoices with, and (by which) he arouses his soldiers and followers, and causes the enemies to rejoice (with this).

This is what Allaah the Most High, has granted us success in arriving at, in conviction and affirmation, and in aiding the truth and its people. And we call Allaah, the Most High - to witness over this, inwardly and outwardly, and He, the Sublime, is the best of witnesses.

And prayers and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and all his companions, and our final call is that all praise is to Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds.

Shaikh Rabee' bin Haadee al-Madkhalee
Shaikh Moosa Nasr
Shaikh Alee al-Halabee
Shaikh Saleem al-Hilaalee
Shaikh Muhammad 'Umar Bazmul

Allah reward our brothers at for relaying this bayan.

17-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 297
Joined: Sep 2002

shahid williams

18-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 13
Joined: Sep 2002
Assalam Aleikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

Jazakumullahu Khairan to all who helped in translating the bayaan and posting it here.  May Allah reward the brothers at and the students of knowledge who help with our questions.  Can the students of knowledge please explain (in easier words) the second point, al-mujmal and muffassal.  I want to understand this point correctly so that I can be upon clarity in this matter, Inshallah.  Barakallahu Fikum.

18-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 87
Joined: Aug 2002
This is taken from forums


Knocking the (Remaining) Grey Matter From the Brains of the Lying Lutonian Prattler

Al-hamdu lillaahi was salaatu was salaamu 'alaa rasoolihi wa ba'd:

We previously explained, in light of the numerous evidence filled refutations, foremost amongst them, those of Shaikh Rabee', about whom Imaam al-Albaani said, "the carrier of the flag of al-jarh and at-ta'deel in truth", and "those who refute him do not do so with knowledge ever" and "rather with him is the knowledge" (these are his exact words) - that the principle of mujmal and mufassal spoken by Abul-Fitan ad-Daal al-Mubtadi' is a baatil principle and what is meant by it is defence of the Innovators, and their deviations in belief and speech.

This was made known by the fact that the meaning of "Mujmal" is that speech whose meaning is unclear and it may carry more than one meaning.

Thus, the rule of referring the mujmal to the mufassal (spoken of by the Usooliyyeen), applies only to the speech of Allaah and His Messenger, or of the Prophets, since, their speech is free of falsehood and contradiction and error, and thus general statements or words whose meanings are not known, then the detailed speech elsewhere in the Book and the Sunnah will explain what is meant.

Al-Ma'ribee does not mean this particular understanding of mujmal and mufassal. Firstly, he equates between a baatil (false) deviated, heretical statement and a mujmal (general vague) statement. The proof for this is that he used this principle to defend Sayyid Qutb (on the issue of Wahdatul-Wujood). Sayyid Qutb has explicitly baatil statements, in affirmation of wahdat ul-wujood, that has been pointed out by at least ten or so scholars (and al-Ma'ribee knows this), these statements are baatil (not mujmal) and heretical. So what al-Ma'ribee means by mujmal and mufassal is to defend the Innovators and their baatil statements by trying to find speech elsewhere that can be used to defend the falsehood they uttered. This is of significance because it affects the rulings of Ahl us-Sunnah upon the Innovators, and if this implementation of al-Ma'ribee was followed, Ahl us-Sunnah would not have passed judgement of 99% of the Innovators in the whole history of Islaam.

A second example is al-Ma'ribees use of this principle to defend al-Maghraawi. Al-Maghraawi in many of his books affirms that takfir by way of sin is from the madhhab of the Khawaarij. However, practically speaking, al-Maghraawi has actually been promoting this manhaj of the Khawaarij by making takfir of the sinners, ascribing nifaaq to the whole ummah, claiming that those who worshipped the calf at the time of Moses were cleaner (andhafu) than the Muslims who worship idols today, and he means by idols, the various sins that people fall into, such as fornicating, stealing, etc. So he has outright, clear statements of baatil and of innovation, which are not "mujmal" (i.e. general vague). They are outright baatil statements of innovation, which need to be repented from.

So now al-Ma'ribee comes along and he uses this baatil principle he has devised in his own head, which is to take the baatil statements of innovation and misguidance, and then to explain them away and defend and shield the one who said them, by using this principle saying, "yes but he has other statements which are more specific".

The misguidance of these people have failed to distinguish between the fact that no error or contradiction can occurr in the words of Allaah and His Messenger, hence the correct implementation of the rule of mujmal and mufassal can be applied to it (just like the principle and mutlaq and muqayyad and aamm and khaass, and naasikh and mansookh etc.), and the fact that error and contradiction can occur in the words of men, besides the Prophets and Messengers, and the revelation.

For this reason, applying this principle for the words of men, especially, when the statements in question are not "mujmal" but actually baatil, and bid'ah and dalaalah, then it is the greatest form of deviation and a very evil subtle way of defending the Innovators.

18-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 87
Joined: Aug 2002
This is what I have understood.

The above post explains what Abul-Hasan al-Maribee did with the statements of deviation, by trying to defend those who said them with this false principle.

The rule of referring the general (mujmal) back to the specific (mufassal) is only for the speech of Allaah and His Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam).

Also, amongst men, sometimes people can make absolute statements (that are not restricted, mutlaq), and these absolute statements (without being conditioned or restricted), are considered to be an error. So even if they have specific statements that restrict these absolute, or generalised statements, then their absolute statements are still considered to be an error, and are corrected.

What Abul-Hasan was trying to implement as a principle (as proven by the way he defended Sayid Qutb and Maghrawi), was not even related to absolute statements (itlaaqaat) or general statements, but they were clear explicit statements of innovation.

21-01-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 43
Joined: Jul 2002

Has al-Maribee repented from

a) his false position on Ahad Hadeeth
b) his false statement "manhaj waasi'"
c) his false principle "we correct and do not destroy"
d) his false use of "mujmal and mufassal" to defend innovators
e) his false principle of "tathabbut"

With a tawbah that has wudooh and bayaan that does not have any tadlees or talbees? Where is it? He said he agrees with the bayan, but where is his tawbah? Games!

This message was edited by Al-Fudayl on 1-21-03 @ 11:52 PM

TawhidFirst | Aqidah | AboveTheThrone | Asharis
Madkhalis | Takfiris | Maturidis | Dajjaal
Islam Against Extremism | Manhaj
Ibn Taymiyyah | Bidah
Where are the Best Learn Arabic Courses?

main page | contact us
Copyright 2001 - SalafiTalk.Net
Madinah Dates Gold Silver Investments