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Topic: Shaikh Ahmad Bazmool on a person who makes and error and then recants
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 aqeel.walker
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Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Oct 2002
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Salaam 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah,
The following is one of many questions we have directed to Shaikh Ahmad Bazmool in our conference calls with him from Masjid As-Salafis-Saalih.
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Question of Aqeel: Oh Shaikh, I have a question concerning a man who studied with the people of innovation, maybe in some Islamic University or College with the people of innovation (Bid'ah) or sectarian partisanship (Hizbiyyah). Then after this he repented to Allaah, and he recanted from this innovation and became a man of the Sunnah and a Salafee. Then after that he began calling to the Salafee Manhaj (methodology). Then after this the matter became exposed (to the people) that years ago or a long time ago he was amongst the people of innovation and that he had studied amongst them. Then after this the people began speaking against him and saying that he has some things of Hizbiyyah (sectarian partisanship) with him and so forth, but they do not have any proof for that. And this man openly before the people he calls to the Salafee Manhaj and he teaches the people from the books of Ahlus-Sunnah. And after he had sat with the people of innovation he traveled to Saudi Arabia and sat with scholars like Saalih Al-Fawzaan, Shaikh 'Abdul-'Azeez Aal Ash-Shaikh, the head Muftee (of Saudi Arabia), 'Abdus-Salaam Burjis, and Shaikh Saalih Aal Ash-Shaikh and a number of the people of knowledge in the Kingdom. Then after all of this he returned to America calling to Salafiyyah. So should we take from him that which he is upon now or do we speak against him and warn the people against him because previously he was from the people of innovation?
Answer of Shaikh Ahmad: We say firstly, we say to these people who speak against this man because he used to be with the people of innovation and they attribute to him some things, like Hizbiyyah, for example, we say to them fine... if a disbelieving man accepts Islaam, (the Shaikh repeats) a disbelieving man accepts Islaam, and becomes good in his Islaam, and he learns and calls to Allaah, do you take knowledge from him or do you warn against him because he used to be with the disbelievers? The answer with no doubt is that if he learns (Islaam) and becomes good in his Islaam (i.e. practicing it well), and the people of knowledge testify for him that he has some knowledge, then we benefit from him. Likewise the man who used to be with the people of innovation, and he stopped sitting with them, and he ascribes himself to the Salafee Manhaj and calls to it, that man we take knowledge from him. Because many of the people of innovation, when they repented and returned to the truth, the Salaf took (knowledge) from them. Many of the people of innovation, when they repented and returned to the truth, the Salaf would take from them (he repeated it again), and they loved them, and mentioned them in their books, and they conveyed their statements and they defended them. So if a person repents from innovation and its people, then this is something that contains an abundance of good. It is obligatory that we not reject him, (he repeats) that we NOT reject him. This is the first matter.
The second matter is that this man who was with the people of innovation, then he ends up being with the Salafees, we say that his ascribing himself to the Salafee Manhaj and his calling to the Salafee Manhaj, this is to be accepted from him. And if there appears anything evident from his statements or actions that is in agreement with innovation and Hizbiyyah, then with that - and this is if it becomes apparently clear, like maybe it is something seen or some actions that are reported from him (that he did), that he is calling to innovation or Hizbiyyah - then with that we warn against him. However, simply due to claims without any proof and no accompanying evidences, then this is not permissible (i.e. to speak against him in this case). This is not permissible. It is obligatory upon the person (who speaks against such a man) to fear Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic. He should not speak against people unless there is some proof or some accompanying evidences that show that this man is calling to innovation or to Hizbiyyah. So if there is something that appears to be incorrect, and a person is a student of knowledge, meaning the person who recognizes these matters (i.e. deviances or mistakes) is a student of knowledge, then he is to go to a scholar and he says, "what do you think about someone who does such and such?" And the scholar will clarify for him if this is innovation or not, or if this is Hizbiyyah or not Hizbiyyah. Because some people think some things are Hizbiyyah and they are really not Hizbiyyah, and they think that something is innovation and it is really not innovation. So for this reason returning matters back to the scholars in the likes of these matters, that is the Manhaj (methodology) of the Salaf. Returning to the scholars in the likes of these affairs, that is the methodology of the Salaf. So if you say, "what is the proof for this?" We say to this that it is reported in Saheeh Muslim that two men came to Ibn 'Umar (radhiyallaahu 'anhumaa) and asked him about someone who says, or rather someone who speaks (denying) the Qadr (Allaah's Decree). So they were uncertain about this type of man, so Ibn 'Umar (radhiyallaahu 'anhumaa) clarified for them that this is an innovation. And likewise Imaam Ahmad; the questioner used to come to him and say, "Oh Imaam, what is your view or what do you say concerning someone who says such and such, or such and such?" So sometimes he would say, "That person is a heretic", or "This person is an innovator", or sometimes he would say, "There's no harm in that." So therefore, from the methodology of the Salaf is to refer matters to the scholars. Also, from the methodology of the Salaf is to accept the statement of the scholars in Jarh and Ta'deel (the science of disparaging and praising), (he repeats) accepting the statement of the scholars in Jarh and Ta'deel. This means that some people today or some of those lesser Salafees - with much regret - if a scholar speaks who is known for his knowledge and his piety, and he is known for his knowledge of Jarh and Ta'deel, and the scholars testify to that for him, if he speaks against some people, some students of knowledge will reject the statement of this scholar with no proof and no evidence. They do not accept it, due to Tahazzub (party zealotry and partisanship) so therefore they fall into Hizbiyyah. So be careful of both matters. Is it clear?
Aqeel: Yes, it's clear.
Source: A recorded session with the Shaikh held at Masjid As-Salaf is-Saalih, Tuesday afternoon on October 15, 2002.
Translation by Aqeel Walker, recorded session available at Masjid As-Salaf is-Saalih bookstore.
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| salafiyyah2000
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Member
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Joined: Sep 2002
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All praise is due to Allah, and may His peace and blessings be upon the last of the Messengers sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam.
No doubt there is benefit in the answer of our Shaykh Ahmad Baazmool, but it should be noted that this question can not be applied to the posts that appeared on this forum regarding the brother Aqeel Walker. The question clearly states that
"Then after this the people began speaking against him and saying that he has some things of Hizbiyyah (sectarian partisanship) with him and so forth, but they do not have any proof for that."
So it should be noted that no one accused the brother of having in him hizbiyyah, and an accusation of that magnitude is not made without proof. Walhamdu lillah, we did not see the salafis of this forum accusing the brother of hizbiyyah.
What was requested from the brother was a bayaan of his errors that were known to the people for some time! Also since the brother was a daa'ee to Allah, it was neccassary for the people to know his mawaaqif. May Allah reward the brother who initiated this noble action.
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| aqeel.walker
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Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Oct 2002
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wa 'alaykumus-salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh
Jazaakallaahu khayran yaa salafiyyah2000, and what you have said is correct. This post and question by myself was not intended as an attack against anyone on this post and it was not intended as a refutation against the brothers and sisters who asked about me personally. This was posted on our website and due to many requests from some of the brothers who know me to share it with everyone here on Salafitalk, I did so. I never questioned anyone's right to ask about me, and as you see I honestly answered those questions, wal-hamdulillaah.
So salafiyyah2000 is correct, this should not be taken as a continuation of the other thread about myself. That's the very reason why I did NOT add it to that thread, baarakallaahu feek.
This is an FYI (for your information) and not a "jeer" or "radd" towards anyone. That was not my intent and I don't think anyone who knows me took it this way. True, some portion of it applies to my situation, but some of it does not. It's actually a mixture of two situations; one of which is not related to me at all (in regards to anything that anyone here on Salafitalk said). Some of this was from some things that were said about me by people NOT participating here on salafitalk. So I appologize for that confusion.
Baarakallaahu feek akhee
no need to be offended
was-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah
قال الشيخ ابن باز الطائفة المنصورة هي الفرقة الناجية هما واحدة هم أهل السنة و الجماعة و هم السلفيون
This message was edited by aqeel.walker on 10-28-02 @ 5:40 PM
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| Abul.HasanMalik
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Member
Posts: 67
Joined: Sep 2002
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Salaam alaikum,
Naa'm to further mention what our brother Salafiyyah 2000, may Allah preserve him, has stated, that no one should apply the most beneficial answer of our Sheikh, may Allah preserve him, to those who asked about the condition and positions of Aqeel Walker, rather they did what was obligatory upon them.
Muhammad ibn Seereen mentioned as is collected in the intro to sahih Muslim: "Indeed this knowledge is the religion so look to who you take your deen from."
Also Al-Muallami in his book Ahammiyyatu 'Ilm Ar-Rijaal (The importance of the knowledge of the men [of narration] he mentions: "There was not much speech during the time of the Tab'ieen due to this generations closeness to the Guiding Lamp صلى الله عليه و سلم so there was none who would dare to lie on the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه و سلم but as the generations passed there increased the numbers of fabricators and the heedless, so there was not a land from the land of the Muslims except in it were the people of hadeeth following up the narrators in their homes and in public and announcing to the people their conditions."
So this question is from the deen of Allah, and the books of the men [of narration] and hadeeth are filled with these questions, Ibn Abi Hatim saying: "I asked my father and Abu Zur'ah about so and so..", or other than that from the books that fill the libraries. And we remember this in light of the fact that none of us have reached the level where one does not ask about us. It used to be said in the books of hadeeth: "The likes of Imam Ahmad aren't even asked about." But this is due to them being from the Mountains of the Sunnah and Hadeeth of this Ummah. As for us then we call the people to the narration of Ibn Seereen and be careful where you take your deen from.
We ask one another, 'Is he salafi?' "Who has he sat with?" Whats his position with the groups and the callers to hizbiyyah?" It is obligatory upon us to ask. In The past it would be unheard of for a man to narrate one hadeeth except that the people would ask the scholars: "What is his condition?" and in light of the fitnah of party partisanship and like it we find it a neccessity for our lives and religion to cling firmly to the narration of Ibn Seereen.
The point that we are discussing is the portion of the question that reads:
"Then after this the people began speaking against him and saying that he has some things of Hizbiyyah (sectarian partisanship) with him and so forth, but they do not have any proof for that."
As we mentioned this was specifically for those who were ascribing the most beneficial answer of the Sheikh to a general question upon those on Salafitalk who simply asked who was the brother Aqeel Walker and what was his condition.
I pray to Allah that the people continue to ask who are the people in every effort to preserve their religion, creed, and manhaj.
This message was edited by Abul.HasanMalik on 10-27-02 @ 4:47 PM
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| sayfullaah
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Member
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Joined: Sep 2002
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..--=ahamdulillaah was. salaatu was. salaamu `alaa rasoolillaah.=--..
wa. ba`ad
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As our noble Salafi brother Abul Hasan Maalik may Allaah preserve him stated:
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Naa'm to further mention what our brother Salafiyyah 2000, may Allah preserve him, has stated, that no one should apply the most beneficial answer of our Sheikh, may Allah preserve him, to those who asked about the condition and positions of Aqeel Walker, rather they did what was obligatory upon them.
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As no one on this forum accused Aqeel of Hizbiyyah as the brother kitaabut-tawheed mentioned in that thread:
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5] So all we are asking for is to establish if he has repented from his mistake whilst at the same time acknowledging it was an error, and that some time should be given to him untill his affair becomes clear and established.
Nobody taking him out of salafiyyah, but he himself should make his position clear and apparent to the people so that the correct position can be taken.
As the salaf were cautious regarding the affair of those amongst ahlul bida who recanted, they were not allowed to carry weapons, nor take part in the battles, nor gather together, and this is all by way of caution. And one can look to majmoo al-fatwaa vol 25 page 157.
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So that most beneficial answer of our Shaykh is not to be applied to the brothers who only asked for clarification, as this was there right as our noble brother Maalik Abul Hasan said:
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Also Al-Muallami in his book Ahammiyyatu 'Ilm Ar-Rijaal (The importance of the knowledge of the men [of narration] he mentions: "There was not much speech during the time of the Tab'ieen due to this generations closeness to the Guiding Lamp صلى الله عليه و سلم so there was none who would dare to lie on the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه و سلم but as the generations passed there increased the numbers of fabricators and the heedless, so there was not a land from the land of the Muslims except in it were the people of hadeeth following up the narrators in their homes and in public and announcing to the people their conditions."
So this question is from the deen of Allah, and the books of the men [of narration] and hadeeth are filled with these questions, Ibn Abi Hatim saying: "I asked my father and Abu Zur'ah about so and so..", or other than that from the books that fill the libraries. And we remember this in light of the fact that none of us have reached the level where one does not ask about us. It used to be said in the books of hadeeth: "The likes of Imam Ahmad aren't even asked about." But this is due to them being from the Mountains of the Sunnah and Hadeeth of this Ummah. As for us then we call the people to the narration of Ibn Seereen and be careful where you take your deen from.
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Men are known by the truth, the truth is not known by way of men.
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| aqeel.walker
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Member
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Joined: Oct 2002
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na'm, and double na'm,
Let it be known that I, Aqeel Walker, do not intend to insinuate to anyone that anyone on this forum "EVER" called me a Hizbee and this is not - as I said before a continuation of the previous posts on ANOTHER thread. If that needed to be continued I would deal with it there. I dropped those matters after making my clarification, and what our brothers Abul-Hasan and salafiyyah2000 have said is correct. There was no offense taking in asking. No accusations were made against me (Not here). I didn't think people would even have to discuss that here. What the Shaikh said was beneficial in and of itself. At least from two aspects.
1) One, the issue of the virtue in repentance from error and recanting, and that the repentance and clarification of a person should be accepted from him and his error should not be held over his head until "Doomsday". We should be happy for him if he recants and returns to uprightness and salafiyyah. We should be thankful to Allaah and delighted to see people upon the Haqq, calling to it and defending it. If we are sincere, our hearts will be filled with delight to see a man become upright upon the Sunnah. If we feel delight in seeing someone deviate and "jump off" the ship, then something is wrong with US in our hearts. Yes, we hate the people of innovation and deviation according to their varying degrees of deviation from the Sunnah. And we fight diligently to defend the Sunnah from the corruptions of the callers to falsehood (like Al-Ma'ribi, Al-Maghraawee, 'Aroor and those similar to them). But if someone leaves their ranks and sees the error in their ways, and comes to pure salafiyyah, we are happy for him, due to our sincerity.
2) That the students of knowledge should refer affairs back to the 'Ulamaa' and get clarity. Then once the scholars give them a verdict on the issue or the person, they should accept that and not be Muta'assiboon and Hizbiyyoon. Rather, they should take the statement of the scholar unlike what we see happening with QSS and their likes, who accept the Jarh of the scholars only if it agrees with their desires and those whom they align themselves with.
As I said, I received many emails and calls from those who saw much benefit in this question and the Shaikh's answer and therefore they asked me to post it here. This was from the door of sharing benefit with the people and nothing more. I feel no hatred or dislike for the people who asked about me, and I think it actually did nothing but help me and them to become acquainted with each other and know where we stood. I'm not popular or well-known (nor am I seeking to be). So their asking also allowed them to get to know something about their brother, because only those who don't know me would ask. Those who know me have no need to ask, because they know what I'm upon and what I'm about.
بارك الله فيكم و أصلح الله أحوالنا جميعا آمين
أخوك في الله عقيل
و السلام عليكم و رحمة الله
قال الشيخ ابن باز الطائفة المنصورة هي الفرقة الناجية هما واحدة هم أهل السنة و الجماعة و هم السلفيون
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27-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
