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Posted By Topic: Shaykh Allaamah Ubaid Al-Jaabiri: When does a person leave Salafiyyah?

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HassanAs-Somali
27-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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..--=ahamdulillaah was. salaatu was. salaamu `alaa rasoolillaah.=--..
wa. ba`ad
-----\|/-----

Shaykh Ubaid was asked:

السؤال الأخير : متى يخرج الرجل من المنهج السلفي ويحكم عليه بأنه ليس سلفي ؟


The last question: When does a person leave the Salafi Manhaj and (when is he) declared not to be a Salafi?

الجواب : هذا بينه أهل العلم وضمنوه كتبهم ونصائحهم وهو ضمن منهجهم وذلك أن الرجل يخرج من السلفية إذا خالف أصل من أصول أهل السنة ، وقامت الحجة عليه بذلك وأبى الرجوع فإنه يخرج من السلفية ، كذلك قالوا حتى في الفروع إذا خالف فرع من فروع الدين فأصبح يوالي ويعادي في ذلك ، فإنه يخرج من السلفية .

This has been clarified by the people of knowledge and they have documented this in their books and their admonitions.
And this is included in their Manhaj that when a person opposes a fundamental from the fundamentals of Ahlus Sunnah and the proof is established upon them, and he refuses to return (To the belief of Ahlus sunnah) then indeed he leaves Salafiyyah.
And likewise they said that even in the Branches (Fur'oo), that if he opposes a Branch from the Branches of the Religion and makes Walaa and Baraa upon this then verily he leaves Salafiyyah.




من شريط جناية التميّع على المنهج السلفي
أسئلة وجهت للشيخ الفاضل / عبيد بن عبدالله الجابري
دار بن رجب
Found on Sahab.net



This message was edited by HassanAs-Somali on 10-27-02 @ 2:29 AM

kitaabut-tawheed
27-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Shaykh Fawzaan explains that the present day groups are considered from the 72 misguided sects

Are these groups from the 72 misguided sects?

The shaykh responded:

" Yes, whoever opposes ahlus sunnah wal jamaa'ah from those who ascribe themselves to islaam in da'wah or in aqeedah or in anything from the fundamentals of eemaan, then he enters the 72 sects, and he is under this threat, and he is censured and punished depending on the extent of his opposition."


Taken from the book al ajwibah al mufeedah pg: 16.

Is there any reward for good but good? [55:60]

HassanAs-Somali
27-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Shaykh Muhammed Ibn Abdil Wahaab Al-Wasaabi: When does a person leave Ahlus Sunnah.


ولعلكم تذكرون قول العلامة الشاطبي رحمه الله في كتابه الاعتصام ما خلاصته :
     أن الإنسان يخرج من دائرة أهل السنة والجماعة في حالتين :
     الأولى : إذا خالف أهل السنة في أصل من أصولهم .
     وتعرفون أن من أصول أهل السنة والجماعة الإجتماع على الحق وهم تفرقوا عنه .
     والثانية : إذا أغرق في الجزئيات


Shaykh Muhammed Ibn Abdil Wahaab Al-Wasaabi said:
Perhaps you remember the statement of the Allaamah     Ash-Shaatibi may Allaah have mercy upon him in his book Al-'Itisaam, the summary would be:
That a person would leave the sphere of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah in two cases:
1. If he opposes Ahlus Sunnah in a fundamental from their Fundamentals. And as you know from the Usool of Ahlus sunnah is gathering upon the truth and they have split from it.
2. If he becomes drowned (opposes many) parts.


Al-Qawl Al-Hasan Fee Nushi Abil Hasan pg 30


Moosaa
27-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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QUESTION

When do we say that a common person is not a Salafee?

ANSWER by Shaykh Rabee' ibn Haadee Al-Madkhalee, well-known scholar and retired professor from the Islaamic University of Al-Madeenah

The common person, like the average raafidhee, or the average soofee, or their likes from the people of partisanship, if he affirms their ideas and he follows them, befriending people for their sake, and opposing the Salafees for example, then he is from them.

But if he is not active (doing the aforementioned), and he is a person who accepts the Truth, then he is to be advised and taught the Salafee manhaj. There should be no rush in judging him. But if he is active with them and accepts their ideas as I have mentioned, then he is from them.

Other than this, the ordinary person who does not understand what they are on, the one who holds no animosity or stance against the Salafee methodology, such a person should be dealt with patiently, taught, and advised. There should be no rush in judging him.

SOURCE

This was translated exclusively for www.bakkah.net from a cassette recording with the knowledge and permission of the shaykh, file no. AARM001, dated 1423/7/23.



********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

HassanAs-Somali
30-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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..--=ahamdulillaah was. salaatu was. salaamu `alaa rasoolillaah.=--..
wa. ba`ad
-----\|/-----


Shaykh Allaamah Ahmed An-Najmi was asked:
When does a man leave Ahlus Sunnah?

The Shaykh replied:
"If a person innovates an innovation or it was innovated and he fell into it, for verily he is to be advised so if he accepts this advice, then in this case he is to be ascribed (considered from) Ahlus Sunnah and does not leave it.
If he does not accept the advice and the innovation is one which is clear, then surely he leaves Ahlus Sunnah and he is not a sunni, neither is he one of Salafi Aqeedah in this matter.
And it is not to be said that he is a Salafi and it is not to be said that he is from Ahlus Sunnah."

Taken from a tape which we recorded with the Shaykh.
29/10/02

This message was edited by HassanAs-Somali on 10-30-02 @ 2:52 AM

abu.iyaad
30-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Summarised words of Imaam ash-Shaatibee in al-I'tisaam (taken from a Mukhtasir)


إن لفظ ((أهل الأهواءِ)) وعبارة ((أهل البدع)) إنما تطلق  حقيقة على الذين ابتدعوها، وقدموا فيها شريعة الهوى بالاستنباط والنصر لها، والاستدلال على صحتها في زعمهم، كلفظ ((أهل السنة)) إنما يطلق على ناصريها، وعلى من استنبط على وفقها، والحامين لذمارها.

فلا يطلق على العوام لفظ ((أهل الأهواء)) حتى يخوضوا بأنظارهم فيها ويحسنوا بنظرهم ويقبحوا. وعند ذلك يتعين للفظ أهل الأهواء وأهل البدع مدلول واحد، وهو أنه: من انتصب للابتداع ولترجيحه على غيره. وأما أهل الغفلة عن ذلك والسالكون سبل رؤسائهم بمجرد التقليد من غير نظر فلا.

فحقيقة المسألة أنها تحتوي على قسمين: مبتدع ومقتد به. فالمقتدي به كأنه لم يدخل في العبارة بمجرد الاقتداء لأنه في حكم المتبع، والمبتدع هو المخترع، أو المستدل على صحة ذلك الاختراع، وسواءٌ علينا أكان ذلك الاستدلال من قبيل الخاص بالنظر في العلم، أو كان من قبيل الاستدلال العامي، فإن اللّه سبحانه ذم أقواماً قالوا: {إنَّا وجدْنا آباءَنا علَى أُمَّةٍ وَإنَّا عَلَى آثَارِهِمْ مُهْتَدَونَ} فكأنهم استدلوا إلى دليل جُمْلِىّ، وهو الآباءُ إذ كانوا عندهم من أهل العقل، وقد كانوا على هذا الدين، وليس إلا لأنه صواب، فنحن عليه، لأنه لو كان خطأُ لما ذهبوا إليه.

وهو نظير من يستدل على صحة البدعة بعمل الشيوخ ومن يشار إليه بالصلاح، ولا ينظر إلى كونه من أهل الاجتهاد في الشريعة أو من أهل التقليد، ولا كونه يعمل بعلم أو بجهل. ولكن مثل هذا يعد استدلالاً في الجملة من حيث جعل عمدة في اتباع الهوى واطَّراح ما سواه، فمن أخذ به فهو آخذ بالبدعة بدليل مثله، ودخل في مسمى أهل الابتداع، إذ كان من حق من كان هذا سبيله أن ينظر في الحق إن جاءَه، ويبحث ويتأنى ويسأل حتى يتبين له فيتبعه، أو الباطل فيجتنبه. ولذلك قال تعالى ردّاً على المحتجين بما تقدم: {قُلْ أوَلَوْا جِئْتُكُمْ بِأهْدَى مِمَّا وجدْتُمْ عليْهِ آبَاءَكُمْ؟} وفي الآية الأُخرى: {وإذا قِيلَ لهُمُ: اتَّبِعُوا ما أنْزَل اللّهُ. قالوا: بَلْ نَتَّبِعُ ما ألْفَيْنا عليْهِ آباءَنا} فقال تعالى: {أوَلَوْ كان آباؤُهُمْ لاَ يعْقِلون شيئاً وَلاَ يَهْتدُون؟} وفي الآية الأُخرى {أوَلَوْ كان الشَّيْطانُ يَدْعُوهُمْ إلَى عذابِ السَّعِيرِ} وأمثال ذلك كثير.

وعلامة من هذا شأْنه أن يرد خلاف مذهبه بما عليه من شبهة دليل تفصيلي أو إجمالي، ويتعصب لما هو عليه غير ملتفت إلى غيره، وهو عين اتباع الهوى. فهو المذموم حقاً. وعليه يحصل الإثم، فإن من كان مسترشداً مال إلى الحق حيث وجده ولم يرده، وهو المعتاد في طالب الحق. ولذلك بادر المحققون إلى اتباع رسول اللّه  حين تبين لهم الحق


Translation to follow inshaa`Allaah.

Part of the saying of ash-Shaatibee (concerning the common people) is more or less summarised in the words of Shaykh Rabee` quoted above by al-Akh Moosaa (Jazaahullaahu Khayran)


.-=abu.iyaad=-.
--as.salafi--


This message was edited by abu.iyaad on 10-30-02 @ 11:36 PM

abu.iyaad
31-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Shaykh Rabee` on When Can We Call Someone A Salafee

Shaikh Rabee` explained during his speech concerning Abu Muslimah, the Hizbee from the States, when he said:

?No! Don?t say about a man that opposes the manhaj of the Salaf that he is Salafi. Don?t say that a man is Salafi until you are sure that he is upon the Manhaj he is honoured by it, and calls to it, he loves and unites based upon it and hates and separates because of it. This is a Salafi but someone who claims that he is Salafi and defends Ahlul-Bida?h and defends them against Ahlus-Sunnah this is not a Salafi whatsoever, whoever he is, Arab or Non-Arab in the east or in the west, because Salafiyyah has special qualities, signs and affairs that differentiate its people from others, in Walaa and Baraa and Aqeedah and Da?wah, and the stances that they take.?

(From a phone link up between Darul-Hadeeth, Philly and the Shaikh, included in their article refuting Abu Muslimah).

Jazaak Allaahu Khayran Yaa Hasan for beginning this valuable thread. If anyone has any other statements from the `Ulamaa on this subject of when we say someone is or is not a Salafee, please add them.


.-=abu.iyaad=-.
--as.salafi--


This message was edited by abu.iyaad on 11-1-02 @ 9:14 AM

HassanAs-Somali
01-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Shaykh Allaamah Rab'ee Ibn Haadi was asked:
Is every Hizbi who calls to Tahazzub (Partisanship) and makes Walaa and Baraa for the sake of this (group) considered to be an innovator?


No doubt, this is the most dangerous and evil of the people of innovation.
At-Tahazzub is for the sake of Allaah, for the Book of Allaah, for the Sunnah of the messenger of Allaah and for the true believers.
It is not for falsehood or desires, behind this group is innovation and misguidance, so tahazzub upon what?
(It is) Tahazzub upon (false) ideologies, deviated beliefs and a wrong Manhaj.
So no Doubt he is an innovator.


Taken from Ar-Radd Al-Kaawi 'Ala Talbeesaat wa Dalalaatil Magrawi

This message was edited by HassanAs-Somali on 11-1-02 @ 2:27 AM






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