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Posted By Topic: Number of Takbeer's for Salaatul-Janaazah?

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abu.talhah.a
21-12-2003 @ 3:13 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Assalaamu alaikum.

I need some clarification on a particular issue with regard to the Salaatul-Janaazah.

With regard to the number of Takbeer in it there is a narration that the Messenger of Allaah sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam made nine (9) takbeers for the prayer over Hamzah radhi'allaahu 'anhu (other than the usual four), and he sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam said this is because Hamzah was dear to him.

1. If someone could please provide the daleel for this.

2. Is this Sunnah an issue that is for the Prophet ONLY and not for anyone else to implement or could this be implemented by anyone too. For example praying (nine takbeers) over someone who is dear to you?

If someone knows the answer to this then please provide the daleel. If not could some of our noble brothers please ask this to one of the Ulamaa insha'allaah.

Jazakallaah khair


Aslam ibn Aftabuddin as-Saylaanee

reza
22-12-2003 @ 3:34 PM    Notify Admin about this post
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Assalamu Alaikum!
just a indicator to Bros who are good in Arabic/Ilm that this relevant evidences can be found in Ahkam ul Janaiz by Imam Al-Albaani pgs 106, 133, 141,146. I read this in 2 of the funeral rites books in english. Bro's who want to know the english books titles pls pm me.
Pls if any tullabul-ilm could translate to us in english the relevant daleel.
reza

irshadmuhammed
27-12-2003 @ 6:06 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Wa 'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu,

Al-hamdulillaah was-salaatu was-salaamu 'alaa Rasoolillaaah - To proceed:

I had the opportunity to sit with our noble brother Yahya Silmy as-Saylani with regard to the particular issue of Number of Takbirs in Salatu al- Janazah on yesterday night and last Friday after the Kitab Tadmooriyyah classes.

He read the Kitab ?A?hkam al-Jana-iz? Authored by The Muhaddith and the Reviver of the Sunnah, Imaam Muhammed Naasir-ud?Deen Al-Albanee as an answer for it.

Summery noted as follows,

1. Sheikh Al-Albanee has discussed this issue under the Point No.74 and Al-Albani says:-
   ?Rasulullaah sallallaahu ?alaihi wa-sallam used to recite Four(4), or Five(5) untill Nine(9) Takbirs?

2. Sheikh mentions Two hadeeths pertaining to It.
    The both Hadeeth are as follows :-

?Abdullah ibn az-Zubair, may Allah be pleased with him and his father, reported that the Prophet, salla allahu ?alaihi wa-sallam, said nine Takbirs for ?Hamza, may Allah be pleased with him, when he offered the Funeral Prayer for him. [?Hamzah was martyred during the battle of U?hud]

Al-Albani said in pg.,106, ?At-Ta?hawi collected this ?Hadith in his book, Ma?ani al-Aathaar (1:290), using a chain of narration of the grade ?Hasan. The narrators of this ?Hadith are all reliable and well-known and Muhammad ibn Is?haq (a Mudallis) stated that he heard the ?Hadith, there are several other narrations that support its meaning; I collected these narrations in my book, at-Ta?liqat al-Jiyad ?ala Zad-il Ma?ad, No.,75?

In pg., 146, al-Albani mentioned another ?Hadith that supports this ruling, by saying, ??Abdullah ibn ?Abbas, may Allah be pleased with both of them, said, ?when  Allah?s Apostle, salla allahu ?alaihi wa-sallam, stood by the corpse of ?Hamza. He ordered that his corpse be moved to face the Qiblah. He, salla allahu ?alaihi wa-sallam, then recited nine Takbirs for him.?? In pg.,133, al-Albani said, ?This ?Hadith was collected by at-Tabarani in his book, al-Mu?jam as?Kabir (3:107-108), from Muhammad ibn Is?haq, who stated that he heard it from Muhammad ibn Ka?b al-Quradhi and al-?Haman ibn ?Utaibah, from Miqsam, from Mujahid, from ibn ?Abbas, This is a good chain of narration, containing reliable narrators. Further, Muhammad ibn Is?haq (a Mudallis) stated that he heard the ?Hadith, and therefore, there is no suspicion that he committed Tadlis here.?

3.     Al-Albani said in Pg.,145, ?This (nine Takbirs) is the largest number reported regarding how many Takbirs should be recited during Salatu al-Janaza. Therefore, we should stop at this number and not increase it. Yet one is allowed to reduce this number to the least reported, four Takbirs. Ibn al-Qayyim said in, Zad-ul Ma?ad, Pg. 101, (English Translation/Volume-4) after mentioning some of the ?Hadiths he reported ""These are authentic narrations, and therefore, there is no basis for rejecting them. The Prophet, salla allahu ?alaihi wa-sallam, did not forbid reciting more than four Takbirs [during Salatu-al-Janazah]. Rather, he and his companions after him practiced this.""

Al-Albani added, Pg.151, regarding how many Takbirs should be recited during the Funeral Prayer, "One recites either four, or five, until nine Takbirs, because each of these numbers was reported from the Prophet, salla allahu ?alaihi wa-sallam. However, it is better to recite any of these numbers at various times, just like the case regarding the various ways of saying Du?aa al-Istisfta?h and Tashahhud [one recites each one of them at different times]. If one wants to recite only one of the reported number of Takbirs, let him recite four, because the ?Hadith that mention this number are more numerous."

Note ? (Yahya Silmy said) ? There are people who assume that more than four (4) Takbeers cannot be recited in Salatu al-Janaza, based on weak narrations which has No Weigh which had been assumed to avoid following and adopting this Sunnah.  So let no one be confused on their conclusions.

Inshaa-Allah hope the above information clarifies the questions brother have asked in the above tread.

Above said facts were indeed an very short summery of the detailed explanation and clarification provided by the noble brother Yahya Silmy As-Saylani as-Salafee al-Atharee in reading the kitab ?A?hkam al-Jana-iz  of Sheikh Muhammed Naasir-ud?Deen Al-Albanee.  And I invite all the brothers to refer the Kitab, so that detail explanations can be obtained and benefited. For English reading brothers they can refer Ibn al-Qayyim?s Kitab Zad-ul Ma?ad, English translation Page-98-104.

I would like to remind all of you a wise statement "The truth is not know by people, know the truth and you will know people"

Allah Knows Best.

Irshad Muhammed as-Saylani.


reza
28-12-2003 @ 4:09 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Jazakallah & May reward Br Abu Abdurahman Yahya Silmy.
One more clarification from him or other tullabul-ilm, to get the whole matter complete, that is as in the question of Br Aslam is their even a weak narration the nine takbirs is ONLY SPECIFIC for the Prophet Muhammad sallallah laihi wa sallam and He prayed only to Hamza may Allah be pleased with him.

reza

Abu-Fadhlallah Muhammad Reza

irshadmuhammed
03-01-2004 @ 9:08 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Wa 'alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu,
Al-hamdulillaah was-salaatu was-salaamu 'alaa Rasoolillaaah - To proceed:

quote:

Kitab  - Zad-ul Ma?ad, by Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jauziyyah
(English Translation/Volume-4)
Published by Madinah Publishers and Distributors
Translated by Jalal Abualrub
Page 100-104


After Prophet, salla allahu ?alaihi wa-sallams death, the companions recited four, five or six Takbirs. For example, Zaid ibn Arqam recited five Takbirs and stated that the Prophet, salla allahu ?alaihi wa-sallam did same; Muslim (1589) collected this ?Hadith.

Ali ibn Abi Talib raliallaahu anhu said six Takbirs in the janazah Prayer on Sahl ibn ?Hanaif, may Allah be pleased with him.
[Ali ibn Abi talib, may Allah pleased with him, did this in front of many companions, none of whom criticized him. Therefore, reciting six and also seven Takbirs is established. Al-Albani said in, ?A?hkam al-Jana-iz? Pg.143, ?Ibn ?Hazm collected this report in his book, al-Mu?halla (4:126), stating that its chain of narration is very authentic. I-al-Albani say that the part of it regarding ?Ali?s action was collected by Abu Dawood in his book, Masa-il al-Imam Ahmed. Pg.152, and also at-Tahawi (1:287), a;-?Hakim (3:409) and al-Baihaqi (4:36), using an authentic chain of narration that follows the conditions set by the, Two Sahihs. Al-Bukhari collected this story (7:253), except for mentioning the number six.?]

Ad-Daraqutni reported that ?Ali ibn Abi Talib raliallaahu anhu recited six Takbirs on those who participated in the battle of Badr, five on the rest of the companions and four on the rest of the people.

[Al-Albani said in, ?A?hkam al-Jana-iz? Pg.144, ?This Hadith was collected by at-Tahawi, ad-Daraqutuni (191), and al-Baihaqi (4:37) through ad-Daraqutuni, using a Sahih chain of narrations containing reliable narrators.?]

Sa?eed ibn Mansur reported that, al-?Hakam ibn ?Uthaibah said, ?They used to recite five, six and seven Takbirs on the people of Badr.?

[For instance, Musa ibn ?Abdullah ibn Yazid said that Ali ibn Abi talib recited seven Takbirs for the Janazah of abu Qatada, who participated in the battle of Badr. At-Ta?hawi and al-Baihaqi (4:36) collected this statement, using as authentic chain of narration that follows the conditions set by Muslim in his, Sahih; refer to, ?A?hkam al-Jana-iz?, Pg.144.]

All these are authentic narrations, and therefore, reciting more than Four Takbirs should not be rejected. The Prophet, peace be upon him, did not forbid reciting more that Four Takbirs. To the contrary, he sallallaahu ?alaihi wa-sallam, and his companions after him, practiced this.

Those who said it is not legislated to recite more than Four Takbirs during the Funeral Prayer relied, for evidence, on a ?Hadith collected from ?Abdullah ibn ?Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, who was reported to have said that in the last Janaza prayer the Prophet sallallaahu ?alaihi wa-sallam led, he recited four Takbirs.

[Al-Hafidh ibn JHajar al-?Asqalani said in his book, at-Talkhis (5:167), also al-?Hazimi said in, al-I?tibar, Pg.95, and al-Baihaqi in, as-Sunan (3:74), that this ?Hadith was collected through several chains of narration, all of which are weak.]

This group said that since this was the last practice the Prophet sallallaahu ?alaihi wa-sallam performed, then it should be the adopted practice. Al-Khallal said in his book, al-Ilal, that ?Harb said that, Imam Ahmed was asked about this ?Hadith, which was reported by Abu al-Mali?h, from Maimun, from ?Abdullah ibn ?Abbas raliallaahu anhu. Imam Ahmed said, ?This is a fabricated narration and does not have any basis. Muhammad ibn Ziyad at-Tahhan reported this ?hadith; he used to fabricate ?Hadith narrations.?

This group also relied, for evidence, on a report collected from maimun ibn Mehran, who said that ?Abdullah ibn ?Abbas raliallaahu anhu said that, when angels offered the Janazah Prayer on Prophet Adam, peace be upon him, they recited four Takbirs, saying ?This is your Sunnah, O, Children of Adam!?

Al-Athram said, regarding the last ?Hadith, ?We were discussing the trustworthiness of Muhammad ibn Mu?awiyah an-Naisaburi, who used to live in Makkah. I heard Abu ?Abdullah [Ahmed ibn ?Hanbel] say, ?I believe that his narrations are fabtricated.? For example, Imam Ahmed mentioned what Muhammaad reported from Abu al-Mali?h, from Maimun ibn Mehran, from ?Abdullah ibn ?Abbas, that when the angels offered the Funeral Prayer on Adam, they recited four Takbirs. Abu ?Abdullah talked in serious termns about such reports, saying that Abu al-Mali?h was more trustful and fearful of Allah that to report such narrations. [thus, indicating that Muhammad ibn Mu?awiyah an-Naisaburi fabricated this narration]

They also relied on a ?Hadith collected by al-Baihaqi, from Ya?hya, from Ubai, may Allah be pleased with him, who said that the Prophet, sallallaahu ?alaihi wa-sallam, said, ?When the angels offered the Janaza Prayer on Takbirs, saying ?This is your Sunnah, O, Children of Adam !? However, this is not an authentic narration, which in some narrations was attributed to the Prophet sallallaahu ?alaihi wa-sallam.

The students of Mu?adh [ibn Jabal] raliallaahu anhu used to recite five Takbirs [during the Funeral Prayer]. Alqamah said ?I said to ?Abdullah [ibn mas?ud] raliallaahu anhu, ?Some of the companions of Mu?adh raliallaahu anhu, from ash-Sham Area, recited five Takbirs on someone who died.? ?Abdullah raliallaahu anhu said, ?There is no limit for the number of Takbirs recited on the dead. Say as many Takbirs as the Imam says. When the Imam ends [the Janazah Prayer]  you too end it.? [Ibn ?Hazm collected this narration in his book, al-Mu?halla (5:126), stating that its chain of narration is very authentic.]



Allah Knows Best.

Irshad Muhammed as-Saylani.




reza
04-01-2004 @ 2:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Assalamu Alaikum!
We are not confused with the daleel.Jazakallah for your effort of posting the pages of Zaad-ul-Maal.As a part of education to us what we need from the tullabul-ilm prefably from the Ulema or the best from the Major scholars themselves an answer is that some salafi/Tauhidi bros are holding a position that
                    9 TAKABEERS
1.This was SPECFIC TO MUHAMMAD sallallahu alaihi wa sallam.
2.Was performed only to Hamza may Allah be pleased with him.

SO IS There any base for their kalaam.We understand they should provide daleel for their kalaam but again as an education to us. Is there any Hadith weak/authentic....or any statement of salaf..suppoting their understanding  or the above two positons has no base from our salaf us saalih.
reza






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