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Topic: Marriage without a Wali
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 mujaahidirlande
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Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
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In certain Muslim countries there is a seemingly oppressive system ( I say seemingly as I am wholly ignorant in this matter) which requires a woman to only marry members of her own tribe and her own social caste, the unfortunate result being unmarried women and young men bridled by this system and excessive dowry payments.
I have recently heard of a disturbing trend of desperate individuals eloping and eventually marrying. My question is this: Is such a married valid as I understood that the consent of a wali is necessary. What if the woman is somewhat older does this affect the need for such consent.
JazakAllahuKhairan
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| umm.alhaarith
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Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Sep 2002
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Assalamu Alaikum
The Messenger of Allah said, "There is No Nikkah except with a Walee".
One of the conditions of a valid Nikka is that a woman has a wakeeel/walee.
The consent of a walee is not a prerequisite of the actual Nikkah being valid because we see in another authentic hadeeth that the virgin girls silence is equivalent to her consent. This is in the part of the Nikkah where the women is asked if she accepts the Mahar and the Man. I never heard of a walees consent being part of the requirements of a marriage contract perse but definetly the walee should be the one that is approached particularly in the case of the virgin girl who has never been married before and if he refuses a brother for his charge then that is generally the end of that.
As for the divorced women...she is seen as having some ability to choose a good partner for herself(having been in a marriage before) and so she is seen as having more rights over her self then her walee.
She still needs to have a wakeel/walee and this never changes.
Please be clear when I am talking about the Walees consent I mean in the actual Nikkah "ceremony".
The only women from our Sahabiyah women(Radiyallahu Anhumma Ajmaeen) who did not have a human walee was our mother Zaynab Bintu Jaysh(Raa) and she used to say and be happy because here her walee was Allah Azza Wa Jal. She would say that Allah married her to the Messenger of Allah. She said this because the Messenger of Allah received the ayaats through revelation that mentioned directly Zaynab now being his wife.
Insha Allah if you need actual hadeeth references I will get them for you insha Allah.
I read various fatawa regarding the state of those that marry without a wakeel but until I can locate them and post them with the actual rulings and proofs etc I dont have anything to bring to the table regarding the validity of the Nikkah once they are married...all I have is what is in my memory and insha Allah I wont rely on that at all!!
Barak Allahu Feek
Wasalaamu Alaikum
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| mujaahidirlande
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Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
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Jazakillah Ukhti,
if I may elaborate: sometimes a tribal system dictates who the woman must marry. Here (KSA), a wali will comply with those dictates. If the woman has no wish to marry within her own tribe, or her own race for that matter, what then is her situation.
If consent is sought from the wali, the answer will be a resounding NO! Doesn't this then mean that the woman is compelled to marry someone she may not be particularly attracted to or remain single. In this situation what can a woman do?
Barakallahu fikum
Mujaahid
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| umm.alhaarith
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Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Sep 2002
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Assalamu Alaikum
Wa Iyaak sister................
This is a common question that I have heard asked many times particularly from those sisters that are arab and indo pak.
Uhkti....I will tell you about my friend in the Amarates who comes from a family of bedoins. As you know the bedoin arabs are very different from the city dwelling arabs. My friend...May Allah Bless her...comes from the kind of family who still travel in the desert and live in tents when they are in the desert. Alhamdulillah they know At Tawheed but this is the limit of their knowledge of the Deen(In her words) She from the grace of Allah is Salafi and a strong one in my opinon. A concinentious sister who truly wants to do what is pleasing to Allah. She has been intended to one of her cousins for the past three years. This cousin had various medical problems. His deen originally was very weak and her father refused to allow her to marry anyone else but this cousin. In her own words she would say that he was a decent man but his deen was weak..at a time when her emaan was soaring. She is one of those close sisters to me who would call the Mashaykh primarily in Saudi Arabia for advise and to answer her questions. She has particular love for Shaykh Rabee' in particular and calls enough that he knows who she is....Barak Allahu Feekum...She asked a question similar to yours two years ago and she was told that she should obey her parents and marry this man whos deen was lesser than hers(in her opinion at that time) The eligibility of the cousin came soley from the familial relation and the caste system. She explained ALL this to the Shaykh that she spoke to and she was still advised to have sabr and obey her parents in this. She was patient....her parents saw that their daughter was not making a fuss anymore and they allowed her to continue her religious studies before insisting that she got married. When I last spoke to my friend..sheee told me something that was amazing to me wa Allahu Akbar. She said that her cousin was now Salafee and he had left off those things that were causing her pain. She still was not attracted to him because to her he was someone that was like a brother to her but she now saw that marriage to him was not going to be as bad for her as she originally thought.
Look at the Niamaa of Allah that he brought this man onto the Haqq. A system that can be detrimental to many worked out for this sister.
The point is that as unjust as the system is because of the way that it chooses who married who....know that Allah willalways bring some good regardless if this is what Allah decrees.
The woman however still has to obey her parents. Wallahi my heart is for these sisters but they should be patient as Alah knows best their conditions and maybe if they make sabr like this young sister I know and dua and make tahajud and ask He who can change all hearts....insha Allah they may find the good.
Wa Aallahu Alim
Wa Salaamu Alaykum
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| mujaahidirlande
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Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
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again dearest postees, in the interests of clarification I would like to offer a very real scenario:
A Muslim woman, an Arab, expresses a desire to marry a Muslim man, a non-Arab. Again as mentioned social norms dictate otherwise although as far as I am aware and Allah knows best, this is not a valid reason to decline an individuals request (ie. the fact that he is non-Arab) based on the authentic hadith of our noble Prophet ' if a man seeks ....(to the end)'.
Must the woman then, in this situation subjugate her will, wishes and desires and comply with the social norms and dictates of a wali who desires nothing more than to remain in conformity with the tribal customs over and above that of the authentic narrations.?
Surely the Wali sysyem is based upon protection of the individual and should not be abused (and again this may be incorrect of me to make this inference.
JazakAllahuKhairan
Mujaahid Irlande
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| umm.alhaarith
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Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Sep 2002
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Assalamu Alaykum
The short answer is No.
With the situation that the sister has a father who is her wakeel...there is no getting around the fact that he has the wiliyah over her...that being the case unless he apostates, generally speaking, he will always be the walee for the girl and it is through him that prospective suitors will approach the women. If the woman is divorced then she has more rights over herself than her wakeel in so far as she has a say in who she marries but she still needs a wakeel.
You are right that to deny a man the opportunity to marry a woman due to race tribe etc is not islamic but unfortunatly this does happen and still the women under the guardianship has to pay attention to her walee especially if he is her father.
Anyways sister....take this to a scholar. I know many arab sisters that are trapped in this. They have to marry from the kaleej only..not even allowed to marry outside the gulf states...so thats what I say to you insha Allah.
Wasalaamu Alaikum
This message was edited by Admin on 10-13-02 @ 12:25 AM
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05-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
12-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM