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Posted By Topic: Talking for the purpose of marriage? What does this actually mean?

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idontknowi
01-31-2009 @ 11:49 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Umm Abdullah Safiyah bint Abdul Rahman (Ireland)
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 2009
          
Asalaam Alaikum,


What I write here I write with a disheartened heart. I pray Allah swt forgives us all for our wrongdoings to one another and make dua that we are with him under his shade on the day of reckoning. Ameen.

What is entailed in talking to a prospective for the purposes of marriage? What responsibility comes with it and what is the correct way of going about it?

This is not a Salafi bashing thread nor is this a thread made out of distaste. It is created with the intention to open our eyes to the reality of life and illustrate how many of us have used Islam and in particular the permissibility of getting to know one another to suit our desires, especially by targeting the vulnerability of sisters who are seriously looking to get married.

As you may be aware there are numerous websites in existence for the purposes of finding a spouse. Whilst the need for their existence is in question, many sisters who are unable to find a spouse by conventional means turn to such means with the intention of fulfilling half their deen. One would assume this is the intention of all users unfortunately our experiences speak differently.

I write this to educate sisters about the importance of being cautious, getting a wali involved ASAP and being careful. I also write this requesting brothers to remember that they are talking to someoneŭs daughter, someoneŭs sister, someoneŭs niece. Whilst I appreciate that not all brothers are like this nor is it just brothers, the unfortunate fact remains that majority of brothers who in reality do not free mix, use such means to talk with sisters without the real intention of marriage, but to pass the time and have someone to call each evening and text each day.

Experience of such lies with brothers who claim to ascribe to the salafi way of life have used the permissibility of talking to one another for the purposes of marriage as a means to talk to sisters, get close to them, make them feel special, promise marriage to them, tell them they love them and will provide for them, that they are getting to know them for the sake of Allah and with the intention to please him. Whilst such brothers demand their wives do not free mix, do not have a career and submit to their husband, it is in fact these very brothers that for the 'purpose of marriage' are exploiting our dear sisters and targeting their vulnerability and desire to get married. Talking to 3-4 sisters at a time, calling one after the other, and subhanallah rotating the calls to each sister to coincide with their Salah times and sending them Quran recitation. Please my dear brothers fear Allah!!!

Brother I ask you please to consider those who you are hurting, the parents who have put their trust and Amanat in your hand with the faith that their daughter is getting to know a good brother. When in reality the intention for marriage was never there.

Sisters please be cautious. I write this thread out of experience, remorse and regret.

A man who loves you and wants to marry you for the sake of his Lord will marry you without hesitation nor will his falter in neither his movements nor his ability to prove himself as existing.


Surah Hud Ayah 90-"But ask forgiveness of you Lord and turn unto Him (in repentance): for my Lord is indeed Full of mercy and loving-kindness."


ibnwaheed
02-01-2009 @ 5:44 AM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified Hassan bin Waheed (Teaneck, NJ, USA)
Member
Posts: 54
Joined: Jun 2008
          
quote:
"11th May 2007
"Sheikh Ubayd al-Jaabiree spoke against those Muslim men and women who use the internet to find a partner. He said there are amongst some men whose hearts there is a disease and who are cursed by Allaah such that they enter amongst forums specific for women with female names and start chatting with sisters and even if it is for da'wah for they deceive the people around them and then ask them for marriage etc.

"The Prophet sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said 'Whoever comes to you and you are pleased with their deen and mannerism...' Saheehah (1022)

"Here the sheikh said a Muslim man who wants to get married should go to the wali (her guardian) and not through the internet so they can see the mannerism and deen of the one proposing. How can the deen and mannerism be ascertained from the internet? The hadeeth says "comes to you". Sisters and brothers he said be warned since these brothers and also some sisters have no shame in what they do and sometimes they break marriages as they maybe speak to someone who is already married and chat with them until the divorce has occurred. And he said he has received numerous complaints about this.

"Abdulilah Lahmami"

http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=10&Topic=6009


quote:
Questioner: Assalamu alaykum

Shaykh Muhammad Naasir ad-Deen Al-Albaanee: Wa Alaykum Assalamu wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatuhu

Questioner: If you don't mind is the noble Shaykh al-Albaani there?

Shaykh: He's with you.

Questioner: Good, if you would allow me, O Shaykh, I have some questions to ask.

Shaykh: Go ahead.

Questioner: Is it permissible to talk to my fiancee over the phone?

Shaykh: Have you contracted the marriage yet or not?

Questioner: Not yet.

Shaykh: It's not permissible.

Questioner: Not permissible?

Shaykh: Not allowed.

Questioner: Even if it's for advice?

Shaykh: It's not permissible.

Questioner: Okay. Is it permissible for me to visit her and sit with her if the Mahram is present?

Shaykh: With a Mahram being present and she comes in front of you wearing a jilbaab in hijab, like when she goes out, then it's allowed, otherwise no.

Questioner: Is it possible for her to uncover her face?

Shaykh: It's possible, if it's only the face.[1]

Questioner: Only the face?

Shaykh: She shouldn't wear a beautified dress and a short dress, etc.

Questioner: Okay. Regarding sitting with her, what is permissible for me to talk to her about?

Shaykh: Do not talk to her except about that which you would talk with other than her.

Questioner: Okay. If she asks me for my picture, is it okay to give it to her or not?

Shaykh: Just like if you asked her for her picture.

Questioner: Yes?

Shaykh: I said just like if you asked her for her picture.

Questioner: Yes.

Shaykh: Is it permissible?

Questioner: No.

Shaykh: And my answer is also no.

Questioner: Your answer is no?

Shaykh: No, definitely no.

Questioner: About what?

Shaykh: About what? For the same thing that you said, that you cannot ask her for her picture.[2]

Questioner: Yes.

Shaykh: Understand?

Questioner: Yes, yes.

Shaykh: If you understand then stick to it.

Questioner: But, O Shaykh, sometimes a person is forced to phone her, is this permissible?

Shaykh: I don't think there is a need, you want to marry her don't you?

Questioner: For example, is it permissible to phone her for the possibility that I can visit her, at such and such time?

Shaykh: Why do you want to visit her?! What's the difference between her and any other woman?

Questioner: Do you mean it's not allowed to visit her?

Shaykh: O my brother, I say to you what's the difference between her and any other woman? Why do you want to visit her? You want to marry her; you marry her by requesting it from her guardian.

Questioner: If her guardian is present?

Shaykh: You want to marry her, you marry her by requesting her guardian, if there is an original agreement then you can visit her if the guardian is present, to see her and she sees you, as for visiting her then no!

Questioner: It's still not allowed to visit even after the engagement?

Shaykh: After the engagement?

Questioner: Yeah.

Shaykh: She remains to be a stranger to you, O brother, until you perform the marriage contract.

Questioner: Thank you, may Allaah reward you O Shaykh.

Shaykh: And you.

Questioner: May Allaah be generous to you.

Shaykh: May Allaah protect you. Sallamu alayk.

Questioner: Assalamu alaykum

Shaykh: Wa Alaykum Assalamu wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatuhu

Taken from: Silsilah Al-Huda wa An-Noor, #269 at 10:03

[1] The Shaykh didn't consider the face to be awrah.
[2] The Shaykh didn't consider photography to be permissible at all.

dksadiq
02-01-2009 @ 9:30 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Damilola Sadiq ibn Owodunni (Lagos, Nigeria || Eastern Province, KSA)
Member
Posts: 338
Joined: Jul 2007
          
wa 'alaikumus-salaam warahmatullahi wabarakaatuh,

Question: Is it permissible for a sister and a brother who intend to get married to talk with each other over the phone/internet/e-mail? I'll appreciate if someone can help with this. JazaakumAllahu khayraa.

I found these but I'm unsure if they apply to my question directly:
quote:
The ruling on relations before marriage
Question:

What is the ruling of the relationship of a person with his Fiancee?
Answer:

If what is meant by the saying of the questioner 'before marriage' before consummating it, and after the contract is made, then there is no sin, because after the contract is made, she will be his wife, even if it has not been consummated. However, if it was before the contract , and during the proposal or before it, then it is forbidden, impermissible, because it is not allowed for a man to enjoy the company of a woman who is unrelated to him, neither by speech, nor by looking at her, nor by being alone with her. This is because it has confirmed from the Prophet-Sallallahu alaihi wasallam- that He said: No man should stay with a lady in seclusion except in the presence of a Dhu-Mahram. A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram. [1] In short, it may be said that there is no sin in meeting after the contract has been made. But if it is before the contract, even if it is after the proposal and her acceptance, it is not permissible, and he is forbidden to her because she is not related to him until he makes the contract with her

1. Muslim no. 1341

Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen
Fatwa Islamiyah Vol: 5 page no.122

quote:
[url=http://www.fatwaislam.com/fis/index.cfm?scn=fd&ID=940]How Can I Become Acquainted With My Fiancee?[/url]
Question:

When I go to propose to a young woman, how may I speak to her, in order to know her beliefs, her piety, her character and her manners? And is it permissible for me to sit with her?
Answer:

It is permissible for the suitor to look at the woman to whom he is proposing, but without being alone with her, because the Sunnah has been authentically reported from the Prophet-Sallallahu alaihi wasallam- to that effect.He may ask her and her guardian about what is important to him regarding matters related to marriage.

Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Bin Baz
Fatawa Islamiyah Darussalam Vol:5 Page no.209

quote:
[url=http://www.fatwaislam.com/fis/index.cfm?scn=fd&ID=94]What is Permissable for the Suitor to See of the Woman Before the Wedding[/url]
Question:

If a man makes a proposal of marriage to a young woman, is it obligatory for him to see her? Also, is it correct for the young woman to uncover her hair and to reveal her beauty more for her fiancŭ? Advise us, and may Allaah benefit you.
Answer:

There is no objection, but it is not obligatory. Rather, it is preferred for him to see her, and for her to see him. This is because the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi was salaam ordered the suitor to look at her, because that is more likely to produce harmony between them, so if she uncovers her face, hands and head for him, there is no objection, according to the most correct opinion.

Some of the scholars said that it is sufficient for him to see her face and hands, but the most correct opinion is that there is no objection to him seeing her head, face, hands and feet, according to the aforementioned Hadeeth. But it is not permissible for him to do so, while being alone with her; rather, her father, her brother or another must be present with her. This is because the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi was salaam said:

ŭA man may not be secluded with a woman except with a Mahram.ŭ Muslim no. 1341

He sallallaahu alayhi was salaam also said:

ŭA man should not be alone with a woman, for verily Satan makes a third.ŭ At-Tirmithi no. 2165 and Ahmad 1/18.

Narrated by Imaam Muslim with an authentic chain of narrators, on the authority of ŭUmar, may Allaah be pleased with him.

Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Bin Baz
Fatawa Islamiyyah, Darussalam, volume 5, pages 207/208


bus3s7a
02-01-2009 @ 6:56 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abu Maryam Shehzad ibn Ghazanfar Ali (UK)
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Aug 2008
          
Wa 'alaykum Assalaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh,

Jazaa-Killahu Khayr sister for these beautiful words, may they be a cause of benefit for you in the hereafter and all those who benefit from them in the dunyah also, Ameen.

O my brothers and sisters in Islaam if you are true believers then know that your Lord (Subhaanahu wa Taŭalaa) has stated in His noble Book:

'That Day mankind will proceed in scattered groups that they may be shown their deeds.  So whosoever does good equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant), shall see it.  And whosoever does evil equal to the weight of an atom (or a small ant), shall see it.' (99:6-8).

Know that the standing in front of your Lord is TRUE!!

Next time shaytaan makes you do (or even think about doing) some of these despicable acts which the sister has mentioned then remember these aayaat because what you are doing is far greater than the weight of an atom and Allah (Subhaanahu wa Taŭaala) knows best.

May Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta`aala) guide the ummah to the Haqq and  pure and authentic Sunnah and "Our Lord! Let not our hearts deviate (from the truth) after You have guided us, and grant us mercy from You. Truly, You are the Bestower." (3:8).

Wa salaamu alikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh


al-maun
04-02-2009 @ 6:43 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Bint Abu-bakr Abu-bakr (london)
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Mar 2009
          
Asalamu alaykum wa rahmatulahi wa barakatu,jazzakallah khayr for posting this. It is very useful(mashallah) and may allah swt grant u happiness in this life and the hereafter(salam)

Your sister in Islam






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