SalafiTalk.Net
SalafiTalk.Net » The Fitnah of Al-Ma'ribee, Tamyee', those who Accommodate the Astray Sects
» Shaykh Muhammed Bazmool: How to deal with the supporters of Ma'ribi and the last Bayaan from the Jordanian Shuyookh.
Search ===>




Part 1Part 2Part 3Part 4Part 5Part 6Part 7Part 8Part 9 • Part 10 • Part 11 • Part 12


   Reply to this Discussion Start new discussion << previous || next >> 
Posted By Topic: Shaykh Muhammed Bazmool: How to deal with the supporters of Ma'ribi and the last Bayaan from the Jordanian Shuyookh.

book mark this topic Printer-friendly Version  send this discussion to a friend  new posts last

HassanAs-Somali
06-01-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Sep 2002
          




السؤال السادس : ما هو الموقف الصحيح لمن يدافع على أبي الحسن ويذب عنه ؟
الشيخ : الموقف الصحيح ممن يدافع عن أبي الحسن هو الموقف ممن يدافع عن أهل البدع نقول : يناصح هذا الذي يدافع عن أهل البدع وينافح عنهم فإن رجع وإلا عومل معاملتهم في التحذير منه والبعد عنه وعن مجالسته وتحذير الناس من السماع له والله وأعلم .


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


السؤال السابع : هل تؤيد يا شيخ بيان مشايخ الأردن ؟
الشيخ : أي بيان
السائل : هذا البيان الأخير الذى في شهر رمضان بأنهم لا يلزمهم تبديع أبى الحسن ؟
الشيخ : أنا لا أؤيد طريقة الشيخ على حفظه الله والشيخ سليم-يعني أنا لي وجهة نظر لامانع من أن أبينها لك :-
أولا : ألخص لك وجهة نظري أنا أقول أن الشيخ على والشيخ سليم من أهل الفضل ولهم فضل علي وهم في طبقة أعلى مني أكاد أنا أكون من تلاميذهم ممن تتلمذ على كتبهم واستفاد من إرشاراتهم ومعلوماتهم .
ثانياُ : أقول الحق أحق أن يتبع مثلما قال ذاك الرجل، قال فلان شيخي حبيب إلى قلبي و الحق حبيب إلى قلبي فإذا اختلف شيخي والحق اتبعت الحق، فأنا أقول أني- وإن كنت أستصغر شأني الحقيقة في الكلام أمام الشيخ على والشيخ سليم - أقول أن الطريقة التى يسلكها هؤلاء الإخوة يعني غير طريقة لائقة ولم يكن هذا الظن بهم، يعني كنت أتمنى أن يعلموا الشباب أنهم طلبة علم وأن لا يضعوا أنفسهم في مصاف العلماء وأن يكونوا تبعاً للعلماء ولا يقفوا هم والعلماء على قدم المساوة، الشيخ ربيع يعني أكبر من الشيخ على وأكبر من الشيخ سليم يمكن بثلاثين سنة، طبقة عالية جداً الشيخ ربيع، ورجل متفرد في كلامه في هذه الأمور يكاد يكون ما فيش وحده في هذا الباب لا أعرف رجلاً يعني مفرد كلامه ووقته لهذه القضايا، وهو أسقط عن العلماء اسم فرض الكفاية لولا أن الشيخ ربيع قام وأمثاله من أهل العلم قاموا بهذه الأمور لزم أهل العلم بسكوتهم عن أهل البدع وعن أهل الباطل وعن بيان الأخطاء التي يقع فيها هؤلاء الناس .
أقول كان الواجب على الشيخ سليم والشيخ على أن لا يظهروا أي شيء فيه خلاف للعلماء خاصة في مثل هذه القضايا وكان الواجب عليهم أن يكونوا تبعاً لهم لكي يربوا الشباب ويعلموهم اتباع العلماء وأنهم يحرصون عليهم وعلى كلمتهم وعلى إعلاء شأن العلم . فأنا الحقيقة ما أرضى عن هذا البيان ولا عن غيره من البيانات التى تصدر من هناك- من الأردن- وكأنهم يريدون أن يصنعون هناك جبهة مقابلة لهيئة كبار العلماء عندنا أو كلام أهل العلم عندنا وهذا ما ينبغي ولا نستحسنه .
الأمر الثالث : فأنا أقول لك هم اعترفوا في المجلس الذي كان عندنا في مكة عند الشيخ ربيع حفظه الله بأخطأ وقع فيها أبو الحسن وأنهم يخالفونه فيها وقالوا نحن لانلتزم تبديع أبي الحسن أقول : أن قصدوا بقولهم تبديع أبي الحسن أنهم لا ينسبونه إلى أنه من أهل الأهواء المصرين المعاندين الذين تبين لهم الحق ولم يرجعوا، إن قصدوا هذا فالخلاف في هذه الحالة يكون أخف من أن لو أنهم قصدوا-الأمر الثاني- وهو أن لايحكم عليه بأنه صاحب بدعة لأننا نقول اعترفهم بخطأ أبي الحسن في هذه المسائل يلزمهم أن يصفوا أبا الحسن بأنه صاحب بدعة وهذا يحتاج إلى بيان وهو أن العلماء المتاخرين يفرقون بين وصف الرجل بأنه صاحب بدعة و بأنه مبتدع فيقولون : كل من حصل منه إحداث في الدين فهو صاحب بدعة ولا يوصف بأنه مبتدع حتى تقوم عليه الحجة ويعاند ويصر على الباطل ولايكون هناك مانع من قبوله للحق فإذا أصر وعاند فعندها يوصف بأنه مبتدع صاحب هوى فهم يفرقون بين أنه صاحب بدعة وبين أنه مبتدع فإذا أراد الإخوة على وسليم أنهم لايصفون أبا الحسن بأنه مبتدع هذا المعنى فالأمر بالنسبة لهم نقول واسع حتى يتبين لهم أنه معاند وليعذروا الشيخ ربيع وغيره من العلماء وطلاب العلم ممن تبين لهم في حال أبي الحسن أنه معاند يتبع هواه فيصفونه بالابتداع أما إذا أرادوا أنهم لايصفون أبا الحسن لا بالمبتدع ولا بصاحب بدعة فهذا خلاف البيان الذى وقعوه في مكة وصرحوا فيه بمخالفة أبي الحسن وخطأه في تلك المسائل المنصوص عليها لأن تلك المسائل التي نص فيها على خطأ أبي الحسن هي من مسائل البدع فمن خالف في مثل هذه المسائل يوصف بأنه صاحب بدعة فإن تبين عناده يوصف بأنه مبتدع ونحن نقول أبو الحسن كما وصفه الشيخ ربيع وغيره من المشايخ صاحب بدعة ومن المشايخ من تبين له ابتداعه وأنه يعاند ويكابر في قبول الحق فيوصف بأنه مبتدع على الأصطلاح الذي قررته قبل قليل فإذا كانت منازعة الأخوة في الأردن في أن لايوصف بأنه مبتدع فنقول الأمر واضح إذاً وليعذروا من تبين لهم حال أبي الحسن ووصفه بأنه مبتدع أما إذا كان مرادهم نفي البدعة أصلاً فهذا خلاف البيان كما قررته قبل قليل . والله أعلم



وقال شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية:
لا عيب على من أظهر مذهب السلف وانتسب إليه واعتزى إليه بل يجب قبول ذلك منه بالاتفاق فإن مذهب السلف لا يكون إلا حقا
مجموع الفتاوى 4/ 149

sayfullaah
06-01-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Sep 2002
          
Translation by (naasir.ud-deen) May Allaah reward him.


The seventh question: Do you support the Bayaan of the Mashaayikh of Jordan?

Shaikh: Which bayaan?

Questioner: This latest bayaan which was in the month of Ramadaan in which they said that making tabdee' of Abul-Hasan is not binding upon them.

Shaikh: I do not support the way taken by Shaikh Alee (hafidhahullaah) and Shaikh Saleem, meaning that I have an observation, and there is nothing to stop me from explaining it.

Firstly: I will summarise my observation for you, I say that Shaikh Alee and Shaikh Saleem are from the people of excellence and they excel over me, and they are in a tabaqah (level) greater than me, and I could almost be from their students, from amongst those who studied by way of their books and and benefited from their directions and their knowledge.

Secondly: I say that the truth is more worthy of being followed, such as what that man said, "So and so is my Shaikh, he is beloved to my heart, but the truth is more beloved to my heart, so when my Shaikh opposes the truth, then I follow the truth", and so I say, even if I belittle my true worth in speech in front of Shaikh Alee and Shaikh Saleem - I say that the path that these brothers are taking is not the path that is befitting for them, and this was not what we expected from them. Meaning that I was hoping that they teach the youth that they are only students of knowledge, and that they do not place themselves amongst the ranks of the Scholars, but that they themselves follow the Scholars, and that they and the Scholars do not stand on the same level. Shaikh Rabee is older than Shaikh Alee and older than Shaikh Saleem by 30 years, he is of very high tabaqah (rank) over them, Shaikh Rabee. He is a man who is unique in his speech in these affairs. It is almost the case that no one can be found in this subject, I do not know any man, meaning a man whose speech and time is unique for these affairs. He is the one who removed the fard kifaayah from the rest of the scholars (i.e. he performed what was obligatory, so the rest of the Scholars are absolved from this task). If it had not been for Shaikh Rabee and his likes from the people of knowledge standing to perform these affairs, then Ahl us-Sunnah would have remained quiet about Ahl ul-Bida' and from Ahl ul-Baatil and from explaining the errors which those people fall into.

I say that it was obligatory upon Shaikh Saleem and Shaikh Alee that they do not manifest anything (from themselves) that is in opposition to the Scholars, especially in the likes of these affairs. It was obligatory upon them that they themselves follow the Scholars so that they nurture the youth and teach them how to follow the Scholars, and that they are eager for them, and for their word (to be at the forefront) and to raise the status of (their) knowledge. And I, in reality, am not pleased with this bayaan and nor any other bayaans which were issued from over there (meaning Jordan). And it is as if they desire to set up another front (i.e. another direction) that faces (i.e. competes with) the Hai'ah Kibaar al-Ulamaa that is with us, or competes with the speech of the People of Knowledge with us. This is not something desireable and we do not deem it good.

The third affair: I say to you that in the gathering with us that took place in Makkah with Shaikh Rabee (hafidhahullaah) they acknowledged the mistakes that Abul-Hasan fell into and that they oppose him in those mistakes regarding them, and they say that we are not bound to make tabdee' of Abul-Hasan.

I say:

If they intend by this speech "tabdee' of Abul-Hasan" that they do not ascribe him to being from Ahl ul-Ahwaa, those who persist (upon their desires) and who stubbornly oppose (al-mu'aanideen), those to whom the truth has become clear but they have not returned, if this is what they intend, then in this situation the difference (with them) would be much lighter than if they intended the second matter, which is that it should not be judged that he is a person of innovation (i.e. if they mean this second matter, then the difference is more severe). This is because we say that their acknowledgement of the errors of Abul-Hasan in these matters makes binding upon them to describe him as "Saahibu Bid'ah" and this requires some explanation. The later scholars differentiate between a person being described as being a "Saahibu Bid'ah" (person of innovation), and between him being a "Mubtadi'" (innovator), so they say, "Everyone from whom an invention into the deen occurs, then he is a "Saahibu Bid'ah", and he is not to be described as a Mubtadi' until the proof is established upon him, and he stubbornly opposes and persists upon falsehood, and there is nothing to prevent him from accepting the truth, so if he persists and shows stubborn opposition, then he is described as a "Mubtadi' Saahibu Hawaa" (innovator, person of desires).

So they differentiate between a person being a person of desires and being an innvator. So if the brothers Alee and Saleem intend (by their statement) that it they will not describe Abul Hasan as a "Mubtadi'" (innovator) with this meaning, then the matter in relation to them is open and vast until it becomes clear to them that he is an stubborn opposer, and they should excuse Shaikh Rabee and others from the Scholars and students of knowledge to whom the condition of Abul Hasan has become clear that he is a stubborn opposer, who follows his desires, so they describe him with Ibtidaa' (inventing, innovating). However, if it is the case that they do not describe Abul Hasan with "Mubtadi'" (innovator) or with "Saahibu Bid'ah" (person of innovation), then this is in opposition to the bayaan which they signed in Makkah, and in which they made the opposition and error of Abul Hasan explicitly clear in those matters that were written down, because those matters that were textually written as errors of Abul Hasan, they are matters of innovation. So whoever opposes the likes of these matters is to be described as a "Saahibu Bid'ah", and thereafter, if his stubborn opposition is made clear, he is described as an Innovator.

And we say that Abul-Hasan, as Shaikh Rabee and others from the Mashaayikh have described him, is a "Saahibu Bid'ah", and amongst the Mashaayikh are those to whom his Ibtidaa' (innovating, inventing) has become clear, and that he shows arrogance, and stubbornly opposes in accepting the truth, so he is described as a "Mubtadi'" according to the usage that I established a short while earlier.

So if the contention of the brothers in Jordan was that he is not to be described as a "Mubtadi'" then the matter is clear, so therefore they should excuse those to whom the matter has become clear and who described him as a Mubtadi', and if it is the case that their intent behind this is to negate that he has any innovation with him to being with, then this is in opposition to the bayaan (they signed) as I have established a short while ago. And Allaah knows best."




Men are known by the truth, the truth is not known by way of men.

This message was edited by sayfullaah on 1-6-03 @ 10:19 PM

wasimk
06-01-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Sep 2002
          
AssalamuAlaikum Wa Rahmatullah,

Subhanallah, this is truly an excellent post that clarifies many issues walhamdulillah. May Allah reward those who have brought this to our attention.

Wassalam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah!






SalafiPublications.Com
TawhidFirst | Aqidah | AboveTheThrone | Asharis
Madkhalis | Takfiris | Maturidis | Dajjaal
Islam Against Extremism | Manhaj
Ibn Taymiyyah | Bidah
The Past Tense in Arabic Verbs good resource


main page | contact us
Copyright © 2001 - SalafiTalk.Net
Madinah Dates Gold Silver Investments