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» Shaykh Allaamah Ubaid Al-Jaabiri and Shaykh Faalih reply to an important question and clarify some issues.
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Posted By Topic: Shaykh Allaamah Ubaid Al-Jaabiri and Shaykh Faalih reply to an important question and clarify some issues.

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HassanAs-Somali
12-31-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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هذه مكالمة هاتفية مع مشائخ الدعوة السلفية التى سجلها لنا بعض الاخوة في الجزائر مع الشيخين .الشيخ عبيد الجابري و الشيخ فالح الحرب حفظهم المولى تبارك و تعالى

و هي مفرغ من شريط و الاسئلة كالتالى:
سئل الشيخ عبيد الجابري حفظه الله السؤال التالى:
السائل: الشيخ لقد تكلم الشيخ فالح حفظه الله في مشائخ الاردن و حذر من الاخذ منهم في المنهج.
ولكن للاسف بعض المتعصبين لهم اخذو كلام الشيخ العلامة الشيخ عبد المحسن حقظه الله- الشيخ فالح بانه طالب علم مطية الى عدم الاخذ عنه.
-نريد تعليقكم على هذا الكلام حفظكم الله عو و جل-
الشيخ: الحمد لله و صلى الله و سلم على نبينا محمد و على اله و صحبه ومن والاه.
-اذا تكلم عالم سني و اعطانا الحث بدليله وجب قبول الذي تكلم به. ولو خالفه عالم سني آخر. سواء كان اكبر منه او اصغر منه.
و الشيخ فالح معروف في المنهج والذب عن السنة و نصرتها و الذب عن المنهج السلفي و نصرته
-و الشيخ عبد المحسن العباد شيخنا. و لكن لا يعني هذا قوله الذي ذكرت هو جرح الشيخ فالح.
-هذا خلاف التلميذ و شيخه و هذا لا يؤثر في القاعدة العامة التي هي قبول الجرح من الجارح اذا كان له خبرة لمن جرحه و ابان الجرح بالدليل .
- واما مشائخ الشام فانا اعرف منهم اثنين فقط. و هما الاخ الشيخ علي الحلبي و الشيخ سليم الهلالي حفظنا الله و اياهم و اياكم بالسنة.
-و كان لهما بيان مشترك مع فضيلة الشيخ ربيع فاستبشرنا منه خيرا. لكنهم آخيرا لانوا مع ابي الحسن و هشوا و بشوا له و اصدروا بيان فيه حيدات و عليه استدركات و يحمل هنات و لا ادري ذلك البيان الباعث عليه موالاة ابي الحسن و موافقته او مدارته و التلطف به و نقول كما قال الشاعر



ستبدي لك الايام ما كنت جاهلا--و يئتيك بالاخبار من لم تزودي

1 ستبدي لك الايام ما كنت جاهلا--و يئتيك بالاخبار من لم تزودي


-ننتظر و لا نستعجل و نرجوا ان يوفوا بما وعدوا بطرح اامور لم تحل او ان هناك امور من قضاي الساحة من السلفيين كما يقلون.






Taken from Sahab.com

This message was edited by Al-Fudayl on 1-8-03 @ 9:47 PM

wasimk
12-31-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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AssalamuAlaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu, Can any of the brothers translate this into english insha'allah?.....wa Jazakallahu Khairan

naasir.ud-deen
01-03-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Translation of Shaikh Ubaid's words:


Questioner: [O] Shaikh, Shaikh Faalih (hafidhahullaah) has spoken about the Mashaayikh of Jordan and has warned against taking from them in (affairs) of manhaj. Unfortunately, however some of the muta'assibeen (biased partisans) have taken the speech of the Shaikh, Allaamah, Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin (hafidhahullaah), that Shaikh Faalih is a student of knowledge, leading to not taking from him. So we wish for your comment upon this speech, may Allaah Azza wa Jall protect you.

Shaikh Ubaid: All praise is due to Allaah, and may Allaah send prayers and salutations upon our Prophet Muhammad, his upon his family, his companions and whoever allied with him.

When a Sunni Aalim speaks and gives us encouragement by his evidence, then it is obligatory to accept that which he has spoken with, even if another Sunni Aalim disagrees with him, regardless of whether he is older (bigger) than him, or younger (smaller) than him. And Shaikh Faalih is well known for the manhaj, and defence of the Sunnah aiding it, and defence of the Salafi manhaj and aiding it.

And Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbaad is our Shaikh. However, this does not mean that this speech of his is a criticism (jarh) of Shaikh Faalih. This is like a difference between the student and the Shaikh, and this does not affect the general principle which is the acceptance of the jarh (disparagement) of the jaarih (one who makes jarh), when he is someone who has firm knowledge of the one whom he made jarh of and made his jarh clear with evidence.

As for the Mashaayikh of Shaam, then I only know two of them, and they are the brother, Shaikh Alee al-Halabee and the Shaikh Saleem al-Hilaalee, may Allaah preserve us and them and you upon the Sunnah. And they had a joint declaration along with the esteemed Shaikh Rabee', and so we welcomed this as goodness. However, lately, they inclined towards Abil-Hasan, and they became affable, cordial, friendly (hashshoo wa bashshoo, i.e. "very good buddies") with him, and they also issued another declaration [two days after the first, upon their return to Shaam] in which there were numerous departures (from impartiality and from what was in the first declaration of mutual agreement), and there are also observations upon it, and it also contains flaws. And I do not know what the motive was behind the issuance of this [second] declaration, whether it was allegiance (muwaalaat) of Abil-Hasan, or agreement with him (in his manhaj), or flattery and gentleness with him. And we say as the poet has said:

The days shall soon reveal to you what you were ignorant of
And the one you did not bestow upon [with recognition] will come to you with the news (of it)


So we will wait and will not be hasty, and we hope that they will fulfil what they promised by leaving alone the matters they did not solve, that there are matters that relate to the Salafees as they say.

Questioner: Some of the brothers show rejection to us when we contact the people of knowledge such as the likes of Shaikh al-Harbee (may Allaah preserve him), and when the questions are about some of the du'aat, and they say, "You spread fitnah, you are only attached to Shaikh Faalih". So what is your comment on this (may Allaah protect you).

Shaikh Ubaid: I mentioned to you about Shaikh Faalih al-Harbee (hafidhahullaah), and I gave you the principle regarding that. And I say here that you must keep contact with the people of knowledge, those whose deen and integrity you place trust in, and whose firmly-grounded knowledge is known and whose skill in knowledge of men is known, such that you are upon baseerah (sure knowledge) and bayyinah (clarity, clearness) with respect to whom you should take (knowledge) from. And asking about men for knowing the disparaged (majrooh) from the upright, and distinguishing between them is not fitnah. Rather this is the way of the Salaf, the way of Ahl us-Sunnah, in times when the tribulations and storms become violent for the people of Islaam in general and the Ahl us-Sunnah specifically.

So the saying which you have mentioned or indicated, then in reality it only comes from a Jaahil who does not know the Usool of the Ahl us-Sunnah or he is Daall Mudill (strayer, who leads others astray), or a Saahibu Hawaa (person of desires). So if he is a Jaahil then teach him, and if he is a follower of desires, then beware of him.

[Upon being requested by the questioner]: Today is Saturday, 10th of Shawwaal in the year 1423H.


This message was edited by naasir.ud-deen on 1-3-03 @ 3:48 PM

AbuKhadeejahSP
01-04-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Asslaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaah

May Allaah preserve our Noble Scholar 'Ubayd Al-Jaabiree.

Wassallaam 'alaykum

This message was edited by AbuKhadeejahSP on 1-4-03 @ 3:10 PM

aboo.shaahir
01-04-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Assalaamu alaikum,
may Allaah preserve the noble Shaykh...AAMEEN! I would like to thank the noble brother Hassan as-Somali for bringing this to us, especially in these times of fitnah. I would also like to thank the brother naasir.ud-deen for the beautiful translation. May Allaah reward you brothers with good in this life and the next.

Aboo Shaahir as-Salafee

naasir.ud-deen
01-06-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Shaikh Mohammad Omar Bazmul


This is one of a number of questions on manhaj put to the Shaikh Mohammad Omar Bazmul on 29th December 2002, and they are found on the website Sahab.Net, posted by Abu Mus'ab. If this speech is on Sahab.Net, then it should remain on here also.

http://www.sahab.net/sahab/showthread.php?s=e8cc842b037f1cd427d6e821f369a9d2&threadid=287994



السؤال السابع : هل تؤيد يا شيخ بيان مشايخ الأردن ؟
الشيخ : أي بيان
السائل : هذا البيان الأخير الذى في شهر رمضان بأنهم لا يلزمهم تبديع أبى الحسن ؟
الشيخ : أنا لا أؤيد طريقة الشيخ على حفظه الله والشيخ سليم-يعني أنا لي وجهة نظر لامانع من أن أبينها لك :-
أولا : ألخص لك وجهة نظري أنا أقول أن الشيخ على والشيخ سليم من أهل الفضل ولهم فضل علي وهم في طبقة أعلى مني أكاد أنا أكون من تلاميذهم ممن تتلمذ على كتبهم واستفاد من إرشاراتهم ومعلوماتهم .
ثانياُ : أقول الحق أحق أن يتبع مثلما قال ذاك الرجل، قال فلان شيخي حبيب إلى قلبي و الحق حبيب إلى قلبي فإذا اختلف شيخي والحق اتبعت الحق، فأنا أقول أني- وإن كنت أستصغر شأني الحقيقة في الكلام أمام الشيخ على والشيخ سليم - أقول أن الطريقة التى يسلكها هؤلاء الإخوة يعني غير طريقة لائقة ولم يكن هذا الظن بهم، يعني كنت أتمنى أن يعلموا الشباب أنهم طلبة علم وأن لا يضعوا أنفسهم في مصاف العلماء وأن يكونوا تبعاً للعلماء ولا يقفوا هم والعلماء على قدم المساوة، الشيخ ربيع يعني أكبر من الشيخ على وأكبر من الشيخ سليم يمكن بثلاثين سنة، طبقة عالية جداً الشيخ ربيع، ورجل متفرد في كلامه في هذه الأمور يكاد يكون ما فيش وحده في هذا الباب لا أعرف رجلاً يعني مفرد كلامه ووقته لهذه القضايا، وهو أسقط عن العلماء اسم فرض الكفاية لولا أن الشيخ ربيع قام وأمثاله من أهل العلم قاموا بهذه الأمور لزم أهل العلم بسكوتهم عن أهل البدع وعن أهل الباطل وعن بيان الأخطاء التي يقع فيها هؤلاء الناس .
أقول كان الواجب على الشيخ سليم والشيخ على أن لا يظهروا أي شيء فيه خلاف للعلماء خاصة في مثل هذه القضايا وكان الواجب عليهم أن يكونوا تبعاً لهم لكي يربوا الشباب ويعلموهم اتباع العلماء وأنهم يحرصون عليهم وعلى كلمتهم وعلى إعلاء شأن العلم . فأنا الحقيقة ما أرضى عن هذا البيان ولا عن غيره من البيانات التى تصدر من هناك- من الأردن- وكأنهم يريدون أن يصنعون هناك جبهة مقابلة لهيئة كبار العلماء عندنا أو كلام أهل العلم عندنا وهذا ما ينبغي ولا نستحسنه .
الأمر الثالث : فأنا أقول لك هم اعترفوا في المجلس الذي كان عندنا في مكة عند الشيخ ربيع حفظه الله بأخطأ وقع فيها أبو الحسن وأنهم يخالفونه فيها وقالوا نحن لانلتزم تبديع أبي الحسن أقول : أن قصدوا بقولهم تبديع أبي الحسن أنهم لا ينسبونه إلى أنه من أهل الأهواء المصرين المعاندين الذين تبين لهم الحق ولم يرجعوا، إن قصدوا هذا فالخلاف في هذه الحالة يكون أخف من أن لو أنهم قصدوا-الأمر الثاني- وهو أن لايحكم عليه بأنه صاحب بدعة لأننا نقول اعترفهم بخطأ أبي الحسن في هذه المسائل يلزمهم أن يصفوا أبا الحسن بأنه صاحب بدعة وهذا يحتاج إلى بيان وهو أن العلماء المتاخرين يفرقون بين وصف الرجل بأنه صاحب بدعة و بأنه مبتدع فيقولون : كل من حصل منه إحداث في الدين فهو صاحب بدعة ولا يوصف بأنه مبتدع حتى تقوم عليه الحجة ويعاند ويصر على الباطل ولايكون هناك مانع من قبوله للحق فإذا أصر وعاند فعندها يوصف بأنه مبتدع صاحب هوى فهم يفرقون بين أنه صاحب بدعة وبين أنه مبتدع فإذا أراد الإخوة على وسليم أنهم لايصفون أبا الحسن بأنه مبتدع هذا المعنى فالأمر بالنسبة لهم نقول واسع حتى يتبين لهم أنه معاند وليعذروا الشيخ ربيع وغيره من العلماء وطلاب العلم ممن تبين لهم في حال أبي الحسن أنه معاند يتبع هواه فيصفونه بالابتداع أما إذا أرادوا أنهم لايصفون أبا الحسن لا بالمبتدع ولا بصاحب بدعة فهذا خلاف البيان الذى وقعوه في مكة وصرحوا فيه بمخالفة أبي الحسن وخطأه في تلك المسائل المنصوص عليها لأن تلك المسائل التي نص فيها على خطأ أبي الحسن هي من مسائل البدع فمن خالف في مثل هذه المسائل يوصف بأنه صاحب بدعة فإن تبين عناده يوصف بأنه مبتدع ونحن نقول أبو الحسن كما وصفه الشيخ ربيع وغيره من المشايخ صاحب بدعة ومن المشايخ من تبين له ابتداعه وأنه يعاند ويكابر في قبول الحق فيوصف بأنه مبتدع على الأصطلاح الذي قررته قبل قليل فإذا كانت منازعة الأخوة في الأردن في أن لايوصف بأنه مبتدع فنقول الأمر واضح إذاً وليعذروا من تبين لهم حال أبي الحسن ووصفه بأنه مبتدع أما إذا كان مرادهم نفي البدعة أصلاً فهذا خلاف البيان كما قررته قبل قليل . والله أعلم



The seventh question: Do you support the Bayaan of the Mashaayikh of Jordan?

Shaikh: Which bayaan?

Questioner: This latest bayaan which was in the month of Ramadaan in which they said that making tabdee' of Abul-Hasan is not binding upon them.

Shaikh: I do not support the way taken by Shaikh Alee (hafidhahullaah) and Shaikh Saleem, meaning that I have an observation, and there is nothing to stop me from explaining it.

Firstly: I will summarise my observation for you, I say that Shaikh Alee and Shaikh Saleem are from the people of excellence and they excel over me, and they are in a tabaqah (level) greater than me, and I could almost be from their students, from amongst those who studied by way of their books and and benefited from their directions and their knowledge.

Secondly: I say that the truth is more worthy of being followed, such as what that man said, "So and so is my Shaikh, he is beloved to my heart, but the truth is more beloved to my heart, so when my Shaikh opposes the truth, then I follow the truth", and so I say, even if I belittle my true worth in speech in front of Shaikh Alee and Shaikh Saleem - I say that the path that these brothers are taking is not the path that is befitting for them, and this was not what we expected from them. Meaning that I was hoping that they teach the youth that they are only students of knowledge, and that they do not place themselves amongst the ranks of the Scholars, but that they themselves follow the Scholars, and that they and the Scholars do not stand on the same level. Shaikh Rabee is older than Shaikh Alee and older than Shaikh Saleem by 30 years, he is of very high tabaqah (rank) over them, Shaikh Rabee. He is a man who is unique in his speech in these affairs. It is almost the case that no one can be found in this subject, I do not know any man, meaning a man whose speech and time is unique for these affairs. He is the one who removed the fard kifaayah from the rest of the scholars (i.e. he performed what was obligatory, so the rest of the Scholars are absolved from this task). If it had not been for Shaikh Rabee and his likes from the people of knowledge standing to perform these affairs, then Ahl us-Sunnah would have remained quiet about Ahl ul-Bida' and from Ahl ul-Baatil and from explaining the errors which those people fall into.

I say that it was obligatory upon Shaikh Saleem and Shaikh Alee that they do not manifest anything (from themselves) that is in opposition to the Scholars, especially in the likes of these affairs. It was obligatory upon them that they themselves follow the Scholars so that they nurture the youth and teach them how to follow the Scholars, and that they are eager for them, and for their word (to be at the forefront) and to raise the status of (their) knowledge. And I, in reality, am not pleased with this bayaan and nor any other bayaans which were issued from over there (meaning Jordan). And it is as if they desire to set up another front (i.e. another direction) that faces (i.e. competes with) the Hai'ah Kibaar al-Ulamaa that is with us, or competes with the speech of the People of Knowledge with us. This is not something desireable and we do not deem it good.

The third affair: I say to you that in the gathering with us that took place in Makkah with Shaikh Rabee (hafidhahullaah) they acknowledged the mistakes that Abul-Hasan fell into and that they oppose him in those mistakes, and they say that we are not bound to make tabdee' of Abul-Hasan.

I say:

If they intend by this speech "tabdee' of Abul-Hasan" that they do not ascribe him to being from Ahl ul-Ahwaa, those who persist (upon their desires) and who stubbornly oppose (al-mu'aanideen), those to whom the truth has become clear but they have not returned, if this is what they intend, then in this situation the difference (with them) would be much lighter than if they intended the second matter, which is that it should not be judged that he is a person of innovation (i.e. if they mean this second matter, then the difference is more severe). This is because we say that their acknowledgement of the errors of Abul-Hasan in these matters makes binding upon them to describe him as "Saahibu Bid'ah" and this requires some explanation. The later scholars differentiate between a person being described as being a "Saahibu Bid'ah" (person of innovation), and between him being a "Mubtadi'" (innovator), so they say, "Everyone from whom an invention into the deen occurs, then he is a "Saahibu Bid'ah", and he is not to be described as a Mubtadi' until the proof is established upon him, and he stubbornly opposes and persists upon falsehood, and there is nothing to prevent him from accepting the truth, so if he persists and shows stubborn opposition, then he is described as a "Mubtadi' Saahibu Hawaa" (innovator, person of desires).

So they differentiate between a person being a person of desires and being an innvator. So if the brothers Alee and Saleem intend (by their statement) that it they will not describe Abul Hasan as a "Mubtadi'" (innovator) with this meaning, then the matter in relation to them is open and vast until it becomes clear to them that he is an stubborn opposer, and they should excuse Shaikh Rabee and others from the Scholars and students of knowledge to whom the condition of Abul Hasan has become clear that he is a stubborn opposer, who follows his desires, so they describe him with Ibtidaa' (inventing, innovating). However, if it is the case that they do not describe Abul Hasan with "Mubtadi'" (innovator) or with "Saahibu Bid'ah" (person of innovation), then this is in opposition to the bayaan which they signed in Makkah, and in which they made the opposition and error of Abul Hasan explicitly clear in those matters that were written down, because those matters that were textually written as errors of Abul Hasan, they are matters of innovation. So whoever opposes the likes of these matters is to be described as a "Saahibu Bid'ah", and thereafter, if his stubborn opposition is made clear, he is described as an Innovator.

And we say that Abul-Hasan, as Shaikh Rabee and others from the Mashaayikh have described him, is a "Saahibu Bid'ah", and amongst the Mashaayikh are those to whom his Ibtidaa' (innovating, inventing) has become clear, and that he shows arrogance, and stubbornly opposes in accepting the truth, so he is described as a "Mubtadi'" according to the usage that I established a short while earlier.

So if the contention of the brothers in Jordan was that he is not to be described as a "Mubtadi'" then the matter is clear, so therefore they should excuse those to whom the matter has become clear and who described him as a Mubtadi', and if it is the case that their intent behind this is to negate that he has any innovation with him to being with, then this is in opposition to the bayaan (they signed) as I have established a short while ago. And Allaah knows best."



Just to clarify, the bayaan being alluded to in Shaikh Mohammad Omar Bazmul's answer, indicates that Abul-Hasan's positions on:

1. Khabar ul-Ahad
2. Mujmal and Mufassal to defend the Innovators and their speech
3. Revilement of the Companions
4. Entering the Astray Jamaa'aat into al-Firqat an-Naajiyah
5. The so called "al-Manhaj al-Waasi" (Vast Manhaj)
6. The so called "Tathabbut"
7. The principle "We correct but to do not disparage"

Were erroneous, and that it is upon him to make clear open tawbah, with clarity and without any frauds.


This message was edited by naasir.ud-deen on 1-6-03 @ 10:26 PM

naasir.ud-deen
01-06-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Shaikh Faalih al-Harbee


These are questions on manhaj put to the Shaikh Faalih al-Harbee on 11th Shawwaal 1423, and they are found on the website Sahab.Net and this speech is present, along with Shaikh Ubaids found above, for over a week without being removed. As it is important information, it should be shared here and not removed unless it is also removed from Sahab.Net, since that site is monitored and has input from Shaikh Rabee himself, and the students of Shaikh Rabee like Khalid adh-Dhufairee are responsible for moderating that site, and they have not removed those posts, and they are most aware of the Shaikhs previous advice. So this post should remain, as it contains knowledge and advice, which should not be hidden from people.

http://www.sahab.net/sahab/showthread.php?s=&threadid=287685




Questioner: Shaikh, [word unclear] the Mashaayikh of Jordan, [called] "Tibyaan al-Bayaan", what is your comment upon it O our Shaikh?

Shaikh Faalih: ...[word unclear]... This is what we know of them, they do not have any command,  precision of the Salafee Manhaj, but they only follow their own understanding their politics, sometimes. Their politics with the Hizbiyyeen and with those whom they make allegiances with, even if they are opposers to the Salafee Manhaj, whilst they think that they are upon the Salafee Manhaj.

And this is what we used to advise the brothers, do not place any trust in whatever they affirm in the [affairs of] manhaj, because they have no command of the Manhaj, such that they should be made precise (i.e in their da'wah, walaa and baraa and positions held etc.) by the manhaj itself.

Questioner: How do we behave with those who show ta'assub (bigotry) for the Mashaayikh of Jordan and who reject the errors that you have pointed out such as the revilement of al-Hilaalee (of the Sahaabah) in his book "Why I chose the Salafee manhaj"?

Shaikh Faalih: Wallaahi, the way of behaving with them is to give them advice and that the truth is not known by way of men, but the men are known by the truth, and that they should not show bigotry for anyone. When they (the bigoted followers) come to recognise the truth, then [they should] behave with them (i.e. the students of knowledge of Jordan) according to their situation. Hence, in the matters that they have been criticised for in aqeedah or which have been refuted for the error contained therein, then it is to be avoided, and as for what is not like that, then, meaning, that they can benefit from it to the extent that it can be benefited from, such as their tahqeeqaat, and their writings.

But what concerns us most is that the brothers do not put them forward and take everything from them as if they are scholars, but they should be established in the Manhaj, or the Salafi Manhaj in practice (i.e. in their action). Because they are only students of knowledge, they have not gained command, precision over the Salafee Manhaj. And we have not seen them being precise in the manhaj, because "faaqid us-shai' laa yu'teehi", the one who does not have something cannot give it.

Questioner: Our Shaikh, do you advise the "Ilm Usool il-Bida'" (the knowledge of the foundations of bid'ah).

Shaikh Faalih: Wallaahi, "the foundations of bida'", this is not knowledge firstly. Secondly, the book contains some good speech, everyone can gain benefit from it.

Questioner: Our Shaikh the date if it is possible.

Shaikh Faalih: The date is the night of the 11th from the month of Shawwaal of the year 1423H.


This message was edited by naasir.ud-deen on 1-6-03 @ 10:57 PM

naasir.ud-deen
01-14-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Audio recording of Shaikh Ubaid al-Jaabiree on the Tamayyu' of the Second Bayaan:

Contains the saying of the Shaikh نعم فيه تمييع


naasir.ud-deen
01-15-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Here it is dated 24th Ramadaan 1423H:


Attached FileACFB11.mp3 (371 Kbytes)

Kalimatul.Haqq
01-15-2003 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Assalaamu Alaykum

Al-Allaamah Ubaid Al-Jabiri:

Yes, they have (The Jordanian Shuyookh) in their Manhaj Tamayy'u.


  






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