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Joined: Nov 2002
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WHAT THE SHEIKH SAYS WITHOUT FURTHER DISCUSSION OR TAWEEL.
It is clear that you have not understood this principle of taking the khabarul thiqah Yaa aba usaama
The taking news from a trustworthy person dose no even apply here and if you had read what was written by our esteemed sk Rabee you would have known how to apply this principle .
An example of this principle goes as such( and i have made it easy so you can understand it properly)
A person come to you and tells you about something he witnessed .He was the only one who came and told you this .No one is apposeing him or even contradicting him.You know him to be uprite not a lier and he is thiqah with you his integrity is unblemished in your eyes do you take this as being the truth with certainty or do you have a doubt in this news or do you totaly disregard it has being the truth.
With us we say its the truth and we have yakeen in it as for abu hassan he says its not sure knowldge maybe its true maybe if not. But like skh rabee says in his refutation on abu hassan
We never found the companions or the taabeen or the atbaa taabeen having this so that is where this ends for us.But its clear you didn't understand this by you ridiqulous statement.We don't have to take the speach of our noble sk abdul musin because he is not the only one bring us news there are others also saying things opersite to sk abdul musin so now this is not a issue of taking the news of a trustworthy person but rather it's about looking at the news that each side is bringing and seeing which is closer to the truth.All of these skheyhs are thiqah but it is upon us to examine the proofs and work with that.
The thing which is disterbing to me is the way you are giving advice to the people with such confidance and flamboyancy and you didn't even understand the difference between the two parties in this major issue from the issues in which is causing seperations. What is this ? where is your sincerity?
Have you not heard what allah said;(AND FOLLOW NOT THAT WHICH YOU HAVE NO KNOWLDGE VERILY THE HEARING AND THE SIGHT AND THE HEART OF EACH OF THOSE ONES WILL BE QUSETIONED) Isra 36
and bukaari said in referance to this KNOWLDGE COMES BEFORE ACTION AND SPEACH
I myself think that you should stop giving advice to people and about that which you dont understand and read up on this issue properly. Is it posserble for a person who has dose'nt know how to drive to be a driving instructer ? Is it possible for someone to give that which he have'nt got
CLEARLY THATS UPSERD AND ITS A CLAIM THAT IS VOID OF INTERLECT NOT TO MENTION VOID OF ANY DE LEEL
Abu usaama says
IT HAS ALSO BEEN SERJESTED THAT SKH ABDUL MUSIN HAS CHANGED HIS PERSISTION AND HE IS NOW WITH SKH RABEE.....
Yes this was more than just a suggestion and this is what we heard from Sk Raabee with our own ears and if anything has changed after that then we are not responsible for the Qadar but we are only but narrtating that which was said in a large gathering and thats that.
Abu Ussamah says
THIS QUESTION THAT WAS RAISED BY THESE STUDENTS FROM YEMEN TO SHEIKH ABDUL MUSIN
As for these questions then I cant say I have heard any of them or the reply of our esteemed Sheikh but that which I can say is that most of the yemeni brothers if not all have made repentance and have abandoned the corrupt manhaj of Abu Hasan so why dont you yaa Aba Ussamah phone one of them and find out from them what inspiration came to them that made them turn away from the crooked manhaj of Abu Hasan. Before those weeks which passed they were disunited two large groups of them and Al hamdulilah look how Allah has brought them together and now if go to Haram in Medina on a Monday or a Thursday you will see them all sitting together and breaking there fast and this reminds of the Ayat were Allah mentions: And hold you all fast to the rope of Allah and do not be devided amongst yourselves and remember Allahs favour upon you that you were once enemies one to another but he joined your hearts together so by the grace of Allah you became brethren {surah Imran, 103}
And the beautiful thing yaa Aba Ussamah you wont find here in Medina many people at all upon the crooked manhaj of Abu Hasan except for maybe 15 or 20 people possibly and this is from the blessing of Allah. And even we see during this month of Ramadan the amount of people who are attending the houses of the scholars namely Sk Farlee, Sk Ubayd, Sk Muhammad and others from the scholars and the word seems to be that everyone is warning about the crooked manhaj of Abu Hasan Al hamdulilah.
Abu Ussamah says
HE ABU MUSIN IS NOT WITH SK RAABEE OR SK ABU HASAN BUT RATHER HE IS
ABOVE THAT KIND OF PETTINESS. INSTEAD HE IS A ALIM WHO IS WITH THE DALEEL WHEREVER IT GOES!
This yaa Aba Ussamah is again one of you're classic statements that makes me wonder what did you study when you came here?
Why are you highlighting that the Noble skiekh is with the daleel? Is he the only skeikh on the earth who is like this? why did'nt you say that sk Raabee and the 30 plus scholars from Saudi from Yemen from the emirates from Kuwait etc are also with the daleel ?or are they all just a bunch of blind followers?
Are you with the daleel? Do you understand the daleel? or are you acting like you understand it? because like I said before the issue of Kabarul Thiqah you clearly did not understand. And to be quite honest I wonder if you really do understand both sides of the problem because you have not mentioned any of the issues on this e.mail in which the parties differ except for the one you mentioned which you nver understood as I explained earlier on
The only reason you're even highlighting the sheikh Abdul Musin is not because his not with sheikh Raabee and his not with Abu Hasan but because you very well know his opinion so far has been with Abu Hasan and thats the whole resaon why you are mentioning him. We shall see if the Sheikh changes his stance openly and then we will know yaa Aba Ussamah if the sheikh has the same worth to you then as he does to you now.
And Abu Ussamah I think it is a bit of a disrepect to other scholars because it seems like you feel that sk Raabee is not moving with daleel but his moving with desires and this is a dangerous path that the people who hold that Abu Hasan is correct is treading because we find them (the pople with Abu Hasan) speaking ill of the scholars who have taken the view of Sk Raabee. And this was something that has been expressed by alot of the youth from various parts of Great Britain where Sk Raabee is thought to be a criminal and an opressor to Abu Hasan and that the likes of Adnan Uroor and Magrawi and the likes of these Hizbizzies are getting the thumbs up for there salafiyah while the likes of Sk Raabee and those who are with him are getting the thumbs down And Allahs aid is sought.
Abu Ussamah says
THERE IS ANOTHER SHEIKH BY THE NAME OF ABDUL MUHSIN AL U'BAYKAAN HE'S ALSO FROM THE WELL RESPECTED SCHOLARS OF SAUDI ARABIA. HE WAS ASKED RECENTLY ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT SHEIKH RAABEE' AND ABU HASAN HAVE DISAGREED UPON LIKE THE ISSUE OF AL;KHBAR AL;AHAD AND AL;MUJMAL WAL MUFASSAL' HE AGREED WITH THE POISTION OF ABU HASAN.
My response to this yaa Aba Ussamah is SO WHAT.
What is the point in mentioning that ? Will this solve the mystery???
Ok you say that this sheikh says this,I say all of these sheikhs agree with Sk Raabee ,Ibn Qyuum pg 550 Muktaser Isawaaik Al Mursabi also Ibn Hazam pg 129 in Hakam Al Hakam, Ahmed Shakir, in Al fiyah pg 5, Ibn Qyuum in Alam Al Wakieen Vol 2 pg 412, Skiekh Saleem Al Hilaali in Kifiya Shar Makroom pg 38, Sheikh Ali Hasan in Nukut pg 72, Sheikh Al bani sheikh Saaly Uthaymeen and Ibn Taymiyah and many others along with these sheikhs. As a matter of fact the Quran agrees with what skh rabee say in sura hujuraat 6 and in other suras.
So answer me now Abu Ussamah, me mentioning all of this ,will this cause you to agree with Sheikh Raabee in this issue. If not then what was the point in mentioning what Abdul Musin Al Baykaan has said ,because with this statement you could only be claiming one of two things
1) That this statement proves there is a difference in this issue ,and that Abu Hasan is on the
Hoqq and this aids his position. But as we know differences in issues is not a proof for any
one being on the truth.
2) You think that this sheikh himself is the daleel so he should be followed over the proofs which
have come from the Quran and the Sunnah and the history of our Salaf and the Scholars at
this time.
If this is what you are claiming then clearly that is obsurd and it is a claim that is void of any interlect not to be mentioned void of any daleel so I dont see what was the purpose in inviting the people to listento that.
Abu Ussamah Says
ONE THING THAT IS DISTURBING NOW A DAYS IS THAT IF A PERSON DOESN'T AGREE WITH SHEIKH RAABEE'S POSITION AND THOSE WHO ARE WITH HIM, IT'S MADE TO APPEAR THAT HE'S AGAINST ALL OF THE SCHOLARS AND THEREFORE, SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH HIS SALIFIYAH? AS IF DISAGREEING WITH SHEIKH RAABEE AND THE SHEIKH WHO ARE WITH IS GOING AGAINST THE 'IJMAA OF THE ULLAMH! I EVEN READ WHERE SHEIKH RAABEE AND THE SHEIKHS WITH HIM ARE THE 'JUMHOOR' OF THE ULLAMAH! CLEARLY, THAT'S ABSURB AND IT'S A CLAIM VOID OF ANY INTERLECT NOT TO MENTION VOID OF ANY DALEEL.
One of the disturbing issues that we find these days is that a person agrees with the position of Adnan Uroor Ahmed Salam Magrawi and Abu Hasan and those who are with them it is made to appear that they are the true salafis and they are the ones with the scholars. As if agreeing with Adnan Ahmed Magrawi and Abu Hasan and the people who are with them is being in accordance with what the salaf were upon. I have even read where those people who oppose the likes of these individuals and those that are with them that there salifiyah is in doubt or that they may even be Hadadees
AND THATS ABSURD AND IT'S A CLAIM VOID OF ANY INTERLECT NOT TO MENTION VOID OF ANY DALEEEL
WHAT DO YOU THINK YAA ABA USSAMAH?????
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abu.junaid
19-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
