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Posted By Topic: Is working as an accountant permissable???

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Abdlrazaq
10-26-2008 @ 11:05 PM    Notify Admin about this post
abu muhsin abdlrazaq ibn mohamed (UK)
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Salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatu

Ikhwan inshallah I hope you can help me out on this. I want to know is it permissable to work as an accountant or work related to these fields (auditors etc) especially since in the west there is a lot of interest involved in the work?
Is it possible for the brothers to ask what the scholers say regarding this?

jazakumullahu khair

AbaBakr
10-30-2008 @ 5:30 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Moselm المسلم (Masjidul Bayaan, NJ )
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و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و براكاته

From my experience Akhee, you'll rarely get an answer asking your question on any 'Real' English Salafi forum (because Salafis know better insha'allah).  You should really get in touch with one of the brothers that speaks Arabic and have them look up the fatwa, or ask the people of knowledge.  Otherwise, I recommend that you invest in a book series called "Fataawa Islaamiah"; it's a translated ten ten-volume (I believe) set of Fataawa books organized by topic.  The series covers a lot of contemporary issues as well as some basic stuff on 'Aqidah, Salah, Zakkah, Fasting, etc.  The full set is under 100 US dollars from suq-us-sunnah and other Salafi book sellers. You can get the exact link for suq-us-sunnah off of TheRighteousPath.com

As for your request:
Shaikh Bin Baaz said it was permissible to work as an accountant, even for a company that generates some of it's revenue from interest, under the condition that some of the revenue generated by the company comes from a halaal means.  The daleel that the Shaikh gave was that the Messenger of Allah (Sallah Allahu 'Alyhe wa Sallam) had accepted gifts from Jews and Ahlul Kitaab (and they - The Jews - were known to earn their money from interest per Shaikh Saalih 'Aaal Al-Shaikh's explanation of 40 Nawawi).  Here's the sound file from Noor 'Ala Ad-Durb by Shaikh Bin Baaz, Rahimahu Allah:
http://www.alandals.net/media/binbaz/8983.wav

The ruling on working for financial institutions that generate their revenue from purely interest or haraam differs.  



..Unity with those who seek to poison, distort, or dilute the Sunnah with their innovations? NEVER!!!  

Moosaa
10-31-2008 @ 9:32 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Posts: 1280
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wa 'alaykumus-salaamu wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh.

If the job includes recording and keeping records of ribaa (usury), then it is not permissible, due to the curse of the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) upon "the one who receives ribaa, the one who gives it, the scribe who writes it (the contract), and the two witnesses for it (the contract)."  (Saheeh Muslim #1098)

May Allaah grant us good, wholesome provisions, and keep us from what wll be the source of agony for us on the Day of Judgment.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

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AbaBakr
11-01-2008 @ 1:47 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Moselm المسلم (Masjidul Bayaan, NJ )
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Posts: 40
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
<blockquote>
Here's the Question translated verbatim as linked in the above sound file:

Broadcaster: (The questioner) works for a realtor as an accountant; however, he (the questioner) says, "I found out that his money contains revenue from that which has been jumbled with haraam and halaal; hence (I ask), is that which I accept from him as wage in compensation for the work that I perform for a determined wage tainted some of that which is haraam, or not?  (May) Allah reward you with good."  

Shaikh Bin Baaz (Rahimahu Allah):
If the man's money is mixed, then there's no blame on those whom take from his wealth, eat at his waleema, or dealt with him on various levels; there's no culpability in that; because, it has been proven that The Messenger of Allah (Sallah Allahu 'Alayhe wa Sallam) ate from the food a Jew, and a Jew from his food, and he waged him with a peace of metal1.   Indeed Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'aala) has legislated the permissibility of the food of The People of The Book, and they used to deal with usury; their wealth is jumbled, and even with that, Allah has legislated for us their food per His saying Jalla wa 'Alla:
<q>
الْيَوْمَ أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ الطَّيِّبَاتُ وَطَعَامُ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ حِلٌّ لَكُمْ وَطَعَامُكُمْ حِلٌّ لَهُمْ...
سورة المائدة: 5
<q>

{Made lawful to you this day are At-Tayyibaat [all kinds of Halaal (lawful) foods, which Allah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits). The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals,) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them...}
(Al-Ma'idah, verse 5)
[The Shaikh Continues]:
"...and 'Ahl-ul-Kitaab' are The Jews and The Christians, and within their food is encompassed from usury and other than it; however, in the situation where you discover that all of the revenue is haraam, then do not eat from his revenue; from his wealth;  that's if you discover that all of his revenue is haraam; however, if the revenue is jumbled, wherein some revenue is good, and some is bad, then there's no culpability in that."

</blockquote>

:1عن عائشة قالت اشترى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم طعاما من يهودي إلى أجل ورهنه درعا له من حديد
متفق عليه

sajid_chauhan_81
11-02-2008 @ 11:07 PM    Notify Admin about this post
unspecified ساجد (Mumbai (India))
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Many new fataawa on halaal and haraam are available on the website of the Permanent Committee of Scholars. http://www.alifta.com/Fatawa/FatawaChapters.aspx?View=tree&NodeID=3&PageNo=1&BookID=7

Check under the sections called "transactions"

Moosaa
11-03-2008 @ 3:50 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
          
quote:
Question: What is the intended meaning of the "scribe who writes the ribaa" mentioned in the hadeeth of Jaabir that Muslim collected: "The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) cursed the one who takes ribaa, the one pays it, the scribe, and the two witnesses." And he said about them, "They are all the same."  Is the "scribe of the ribaa" only the one who recorded the actual occurance of the transaction itself?  Or does it include any individual no matter how distant he was from the original occurance of ribaa, like the example of an accountant who gathers and calculates numbers in record books other than the original ribaa contracts, as is expected from him?  So is such an accountant considered a "scribe of ribaa", or is the phrase specific to only the original transaction and not the secondary ones (records), and thus the curse does not apply to him?  Please inform us, may Allaah reward you well.


quote:
Response: The hadeeth cursing the scribe of ribaa is general, including the scribe who recorded the original transaction, as well as someone who copied it when it got old (to preseve it), as well as the one who recorded the amount in accounting records, as well as the accountant who calculated the amount of usury and added it to the capital amount, as well as the one who sent it to be deposited, and their likes.  And through Allaah is success, and may Allaah raise the rank of our Prophet Muhammad, and his family and companions, and grant them all peace.


Source: Fatwaa #7180 by the Permanent Committee for Academic Research and Fatwaa (of Saudi Arabia) (Fataawee al-Lajnah v.15, p.5)
Signed by:
'Abdullaah ibn Qu'ood (member)
'Abdullaah ibn Ghudayyaan (member)
'Abdur-Razzaaq 'Afeefee (vice president)
'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz (president)

Note:  This fatwaa was read back to Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have Mercy on him) before his death.  He approved of it, allowing its publication.

Further, it is very specific about the point of an accountant who keeps records of ribaa contracts, while the other fatwaa quoted in this thread only refers to "an accountant" who works at a company that deals in ribaa, without any specification that he keeps track of ribaa.  The difference here must be noted, since an accountant can be one who simply keeps track of payrolls, or keeps records of equipment in the office and its depreciation over the years, or other tasks unrelated to the recording of ribaa.

So there is actually no clash between the two quoted fatwaas in light of this.  Shaykh Ibn Baaz absolutely did not give anyone authority to keep records of ribaa contracts, as is clear now (hopefully to all).

And for argument's sake, even if he did (may Allaah have Mercy on him), then any fatwaa that contradicts a clear text from the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) can not be considered from any scholar, no matter great his status.  This is an important part of our Salafiyyah.  May Allaah bless you.

And Allaah knows best.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

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Moosaa
11-03-2008 @ 4:21 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
          
It should also be clear from re-reading the transcript the brother provided (may Allaah reward him well) that the subject the shaykh was addressing was taking money (as a salary or otherwise) from someone whose money is mixed with halaal and haraam.  It does not address the issue of an accountant's job specifically.  And Allaah knows best.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

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Moosaa
11-03-2008 @ 6:30 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
          
Another very clear one:

quote:
Question: I work for a man who sells chicken farms (or cages), who takes loans from banks to do business with, while the bank in turn gets an agreed upon amount (in addition to the loan).  I work as an accountant, and as the job requires, I keep records of the loans and what the bank makes (from these transactions) as designated in the contract.  What is the Religion's ruling on my job?


quote:
Response: That is not a permissible job, due to the cooperation upon sin and transgression that it includes, and since anyone who works in that (job) would be included in the hadeeth of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) that "He cursed the one who takes ribaa, the one who pays it, the scribe, and the two witnesses."  It was collected by Muslim in his Saheeh.


Source: Fataawee al-Lajnah (v.15, p.12), Fatwaa #6413, signed by:
'Abdullaah ibn Qu'ood (member)
'Abdullaah ibn Ghudayyaan (member)
'Abdur-Razzaaq 'Afeefee (vice-president)
'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz (president)

Note: This one was also read to Shaykh Ibn Baaz before his death (may Allaah have Mercy on him), and he approved of it.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

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Moosaa
11-03-2008 @ 6:50 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Abul-'Abbaas Moosaa ibn John Richardson (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia)
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Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
          
One more (there are a lot like this in the 15th volume of the Lajnah's Fataawee):

The question is a page and a half long, and it can be summarized as follows:

An accountant for a Saudi contracting company asks about the permissibility of his job, while the company has recently taken ribaa loans from the bank, and he (the questioner) issues the salary checks and keeps records of the expenses of the company in a ledger, including the payments to the bank that include ribaa.  The questioner has objected firmly to this, however the company has threatened to fire him and send him to his home country.  The questioner mentions that being fired will mean that he will no longer benefit from the guidance that he has benefitted from in the Kingdom.  So he asks about his situation specifically...

quote:
Response: Working in the aforementioned company that takes ribaa loans, while you keep records of this in the company's ledgers, is not permissible, since that is a kind of "writing the ribaa."  It is established that the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) "cursed the one who takes ribaa, the one who pays it, the scribe, and the two witnesses," and said, "They are all the same."  So you must seek out other employment, and Allaah is going to make your affair easy, as He the Exalted has said, "And whoever fears Allaah (keeping his duty to him), then Allaah will make a way out for him and provide for him from where he knows not." [Soorah at-Talaaq: 2,3]  May Allaah make your affair easy, and correct everyone's situation.  And through Allaah is success, and may Allaah raise the rank of our Prophet Muhammad, and his family and companions, and grant them peace.


Source: Fataawee al-Lajnah (v.15, p.27-29), Fatwaa #18563, signed by:
Bakr Aboo Zayd (member)
Saalih al-Fowzaan (member)
'Abdullaah Ghudayyaan (member)
'Abdul-'Azeez Aalush-Shaykh (vice-president)
'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz (president)

Note: This fatwaa was also read back to Shaykh Ibn Baaz, and he approved of it. (May Allaah have Mercy on him)

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

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