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Posted By Topic: Advice for those who say ?shaikh muqbil?s fatawa needs more detail before it is translated?

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amr.basheer
25-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
الحمد لله والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله وعلى آله وصحبه ومن اتبع هداه
أما بعد:

There appeared a piece of advice, comment and correction on my translation of shaikh muqbil?s fatwa on learning Arabic, from one of the brothers, inshallaah upon this manhaj. It contained errors in understanding and application of some of the fundamental principles of our religion, for he said

[[Surely this ruling requires tafseel(detail). As you well know there is a general ruling as well as a specific ruling. To issue statements like this is tantamount to picking up the book Fatawaa for Women and stating that every fatwa there is applicable on every individual, which as you know is not the case. I think we have to be very careful when we translate fatwas like this because we are in effect saying that the Shaikh said this to all persons, for all times and every circumstance, which again is clearly not the case.]]

Yes we know that there is in the ahkaam specific and general rulings. For example we know it is haram to eat the meat of dead animals and this is a general ruling. But we are allowed some types of dead animals made specific through other texts. Also we know the ruling for eating anything from a pig is haraam. But in a life or death situation it becomes permissible. As for all the different types of general and specific, then refer to the books of usool ul-fiqh. I assume the brother means the second type from what I have mentioned.

I say, this fatwaa is applicable for every individual. In this posting there was no need to mention any tafseel from the shaikh, from the questioner or the publisher, like the he claims, and nor did the shaikh ask the questioner for details about his situation. There is a consensus and the books of aqeedah, manhaj, ahaadeeth and seerah are full of narrations forbidding taking knowledge from the people of innovations. The ruling is specific to them and anybody else in that situation who wants to embark on a path of knowledge. If it was only for them, the shaikh would of not approved of the answer being published.

So is it being said, it is not right to quote the general fatawaa of the scholars without then going into to tafseel. Is it being said that the books of fatawaa should not be quoted or translated for the muslims unless there is additional tafseel, like who it is only for and not for, and for which era, and for which country and which circumstance. What do we have to be careful about. Fatwaas are supposed to be for everybody for all times. So why do we have ibn taymiyyah?s 37 volume majmoo fataawa. Name me one scholar who said in a book or tape about the hundreds of rulings in that book that we need tafseel for every fatwa before it is published. Or even about a fatwa from another book.

Did you ever hear a shaikh give a fatwa and say this is only for some people and only for this year. When the issue concerns you, you can take the knowledge as the shaikh is giving a ruling based upon the knowledge he has. When ibn taymiyyah wrote his articles in aqeedah in response to questions was the ruling only for the people of waasit, or tadmor or hamaah.

Then it was said,

[[It is well known here in the kingdom that most if not all of the dawah organisations that offer Arabic language courses have some attachment to hizbiyyah.
As study of the Qur'an and the Arabic language requires a teacher, it's not something you can learn from a book, then what is one to do?]]

I do not know much about you and nor do I know your personal situation. But there is no need in Riyadh to go the hizbis, or in makkah or in madenah or in juddah.  When, alhamdulilah we have salafis here, ulamaa and students of knowledge. But I advise you and any other person firstly, to recognise who are the ulamaa and then stick to them and the students of knowledge recommended by our noble scholars. Be patient and do not quick to sit with these people even if you find a fatwaa to let you. Look around and ask. there are many salafi brothers who are clear upon the manhaj so why don?t you sit with them and study the language and recitation with them.
Even if any brother has no time, then offer him some payment if you really care about preserving your deen. If you still cannot find a brother, then I advise you to read the fatwa carefully as the shaikh says you can study with an individual who may not be upon the sunnah or very religious.
So inshallaah there will be no need for anyone to refer to the hizby organisations and worry about this in the kingdom and let those who have a need ask for extra advice and for the betterment of their situation. And be very strict in safeguarding your deen as the hearts are like sponges.

then it was said

[[verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.]]

It was better for you to ask first for more understanding before you brought this false principle. It is better for one to start a course of study with the scholars, starting with the fundamentals, learning the manners of knowledge and then branching out. Find a teacher who will not just benefit you in grammar, tafseer and tajweed. Somebody you can ask questions to. Allaah has blessed you to be resident in a country where we have people of knowledge and students recommended to us by our a?immah.
وصلى الله على نبينا محمد وعلى آله وصحبه وسلم
Text

Abu.Abdullah.A
25-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Baarakallaahu Feek.

I attach here a statement of the Noble Shaikh Ibn Uthaimeen, concerning sitting with the Innovators for the purpose of learning, such as the language, or balaagah and so on. He prohibits it, saying that we do not take anything from an Innovator, even if it is something that is not related to his bid'ah.

I ask you to translate it, to add to what you have said.


HassanAs-Somali
26-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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The Imaam Al-Faqeeh Allaamah Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen said:

?Nothing is to be taken from a person of innovation, even if it is that which is not related to their Bid?ah. For example, if we found a man who is an innovator but he is good with the Arabic language, Balaagah (Art of composition), Sarf (Morphology) and grammar, do we sit with him and take this knowledge that he possesses or do we abandon him?
We do not sit with him (as sitting with him) would result in two harmful (effects).
The first Mafsadah (harmful effect) is that he will be fooled by himself and he will believe that he is upon the truth.
The second Mafsadah is that the people will be fooled by him due to the students of knowledge coming to and learning from him. And the common folk do not differentiate between the ilm of grammar and the ilm of Aqeedah. So that is why we hold that it is not allowed to sit with an innovator in totality, even if they could not find Arabic, Grammar and Sarf except with him.
?



وقال شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية:
لا عيب على من أظهر مذهب السلف وانتسب إليه واعتزى إليه بل يجب قبول ذلك منه بالاتفاق فإن مذهب السلف لا يكون إلا حقا
مجموع الفتاوى 4/ 149

mujaahidirlande
26-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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The following is not borne out of a desire to prolong this matter for the sake of argumentation, on the contrary it is for me an opportunity to arrive at the truth and act according to it. So whilst I may have a personal opinion regarding this issue, inshaAllah,  it will not prevent me from abiding by the truth, whatever it requires of me. I trust therefore that you will receive this reply in the spirit in which it is intended and may Allah reward you for your wise counsel.

To begin:

You said ?I say, this fatwaa is applicable for every individual. In this posting there was no need to mention any tafseel from the Shaikh? yet that?s exactly what you did. You provided details, correct or not, that the Shaikh did not include.

You stated ?I do not know much about you and nor do I know your personal situation?, if, as you mentioned, tafseel was not necessary why would someone?s personal situation matter? You also said ?be patient and do not quick (sic!) to sit with these people even if you find a fatwa to let you?, thereby entertaining the possibility that there may be a difference in opinion about this very matter. All of these statements of yours lend credence to the fact that tafseel is not only necessary but desirable in this particular situation.

I have not said that it is not right to quote the general fatwa of the scholars, neither have I alleged that the books of fatawaa should not be quoted or translated for the Muslims unless there is additional tafseel. Nor have I hinted at the ridiculous notion that tafseel is required of every fatwa before it is published. This tactic of introducing red herrings to distract attention away from the points made is somewhat out of place in a forum such as this and inappropriate for those seeking clarification and truth. Fatawaa in their generality are to be accepted, however not all fatawaa are applicable upon every individual specifically, for example:

1.     It is well known that Shaikh Muqbil spoke against the hizbiyyah of Zindani in Yemen and issued numerous rulings concerning this individual and the university he presided over. However in my time there I know of individuals who received from the Shaikh permission to study Arabic at the university under the condition that they sit with the salafis at every opportunity and do not mix freely with the hizbiyoon.
2.     Whilst in Yemen I started working with an American organisation teaching English, unfortunately dress requirements necessitated me wearing trousers (my trousers were tailored in a very loose Turkish style and above the ankles, I also wore long shirts over the trousers, just in case you were wondering!). At this time the Shaikh issued a (general) ruling stating that wearing trousers was haraam as it was imitating the dress of the kuffar. This ruling affected me directly and I sought clarification from the brothers (Muhammad As Somali et al) at Al Khair masjid where it was explained to me that this ruling applied to those who were under no compulsion to wear the dress of the kuffar (specifically the Yemenis) but chose to anyway.

There are many more examples and whilst the first one is more relevent to the issue at hand I presented the second example to highlight the fact that not every ruling is applicable to every individual and that tafseel in individual cases is necessary.

Based on your conviction will you now request all those who study at Al Imam University, Umm Ul Qura, Dar ul Hadeeth et al to leave due to the hizbi elements therein (teachers and students) or will you concede that not every ruling can or should be taken on board without recourse to tafseel?

I realise that in expressing ones convictions there is the very real danger of falling into error. If that be the case here then I ask first and foremost that I be corrected and secondly that you forgive this indiscretion, for verily as the Imaam of Madinah said everyones saying can either be accepted or rejected except the one in this grave (the Prophet). Perhaps at this juncture it might also be expedient to ask Ahllul-?ilm this specific question in a manner which reflects the opinions expressed here.

After posting this reply I noted Hassan's reply. Question: are the followers of innovation to be treated the same as the innovator?






  verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.

This message was edited by mujaahidirlande on 11-26-02 @ 3:11 AM

Moosaa
26-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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We asked Shaykh Muqbil rahimahullaah about our situation here studying at Umm Al-Quraa while there are teachers within the Arabic Institute who divide tawheed into four categories (including haakimiyyah).  He advised us to be patient and did not tell us to remove ourselves from the studies here.

I also asked Shaykh Wasee Allaah specifically about the one who is not able to find a salafee arabic teacher, since that seems to be most of our cases, except that there is laziness in some of us, like Amr has alluded to, that we do not really seek out the salafee but we settle for people of innovation all too easy, may Allaah reward him for this excellent comment.

QUESTION

Is it permissible to study the 'Arabic language, Tajweed, or other beneficial things like CPR from people of innovation?

ANSWER by Shaykh Wasee Allaah 'Abbaas, lecturer at the Ka'bah, instructor at Umm Al-Quraa University in Makkah

If an instructor who has a proper, pure 'aqeedah is available to teach a certain branch of knowledge or field of study that he is qualified in, then knowledge must not be taken from other than him.

If such a person is not found, then the knowledge can be taken from anyone who possesses it, while being aware and guarding oneself against the errors of the one who does not have the correct 'aqeedah.

For if you were to study the 'Arabic language from someone who explains away the Attributes of Allaah, then he may give you an example of a verse (from the Qur'aan to explain a grammar point), and then explain away one of Allaah's Attributes.

For this reason, it is necessary to choose the best and most suitable teacher, and if he is not available, then we choose the next best after him, etc. This is from what the Salaf taught us about this affair (seeking knowledge) being Deen (Religion), so look to whom you take your Deen from!

SOURCE

This was translated exclusively for www.bakkah.net from a handwritten answer provided by the shaykh, file no. AAWA007, dated 1423/6/24.

Moosaa

********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

This message was edited by Moosaa on 10-6-04 @ 6:43 AM

amr.basheer
26-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
الحمد لله والصلاة والسلام على رسول الله وعلى آله وصحبه ومن اتبع هداه
أما بعد:


This is just to explain some of the points you have raised about what I said. Inshallaah, I have no problem in you replying as we are all trying to learn as brothers and it is good we can advice each other. I hope matters will be clearer. I think the problem is over the word tafseel and by what you intend by it. You have mentioned it again in this second letter and so let me clarify to you some points you brought[in brackets] which are numbered to 7 and I have replied underneath.

1][[You said ?I say, this fatwaa is applicable for every individual. In this posting there was no need to mention any tafseel from the Shaikh? yet that?s exactly what you did. You provided details, correct or not, that the Shaikh did not include.]]

The tafseel was totally based around the ruling of shaikh muqbil and it was not tafseel from the shaikh and nor did I issue a fatwa to say anything contradictory. The shaikh ruling was in conformity with the position of ahl us sunnah which is, we do not take knowledge from the innovators. yes, it is not a CONDITION to mention tafseel and nor did I say it was not allowed.

2][[You stated ?I do not know much about you and nor do I know your personal situation?, if, as you mentioned, tafseel was not necessary why would someone?s personal situation matter?]]'

I mentioned that sentence in the second piece of advice. The title of the letter was ?a piece of advice?. So that was mentioned because I was now going to make the advice general for everybody about sticking to the ulema and may be you are already with them and so that is why I said, I do not know your personel situation. I was not talking anything about fataawa, general or specifics

3][[You also said ?be patient and do not quick (sic!) to sit with these people even if you find a fatwa to let you?, thereby entertaining the possibility that there may be a difference in opinion about this very matter. All of these statements of yours lend credence to the fact that tafseel is not only necessary but desirable in this particular situation.]]

I am not entertaining the possibility that there is a difference of opinion. You did not understand the point. There is no difference of opinion about taking knowledge from innovators. There is total consensus like I said. But a person may take another fatwa from another scholar, which will exempt him from this general ruling, like the brother moosa who acted in the correct way and those brothers in yemen at the university who went shaikh muqbil for advice and they then hopefully avoided the hizbees and kept strong ties with the salafis.

In my last letter I mentioned about exceptions to the rule. this is what I said previously,
a] ?Also we know the ruling for eating anything from a pig is haraam. But in a life or death situation it becomes permissible.?
b] ?So inshallaah there will be no need for anyone to refer to the hizby organisations and worry about this in the kingdom and let those who have a need ask for extra advice and for the betterment of their situation.?
So let me explain again. The ruling is, it is not allowed. But in special circumstances it can made permissible. But, only by a scholar. So that is why I said let those who have a need let them ask.
    

4][[Fatawaa in their generality are to be accepted, however not all fatawaa are applicable upon every individual specifically, for example:]]

yes, I agree with you. But my concern was whether a fatwa needs tafseel when it is quoted and I am just saying with my translation it is not a condition. As you said about it, [[Surely this ruling requires tafseel(detail)]] and why should I be careful about this fatwa as you said [[I think we have to be very careful when we translate fatwas like this because we are in effect saying that the Shaikh said this to all persons, for all times and every circumstance, which again is clearly not the case.]] why did you single out this type of fatwa and not others.

5] [[Based on your conviction will you now request all those who study at Al Imam University, Umm Ul Qura, Dar ul Hadeeth et al to leave due to the hizbi elements therein (teachers and students) or will you concede that not every ruling can or should be taken on board without recourse to tafseel?]]

this was a strange thing to say. No, I will not ask people to leave those institutes. Refer to my previous points a] and b].

6] [[I realise that in expressing ones convictions there is the very real danger of falling into error.]]

So don?t you think it is advisable for you to consult the people of knowledge before you express your convictions, as this is serious matter.

7] [[If that be the case here then I ask first and foremost that I be corrected and secondly that you forgive this indiscretion, for verily as the Imaam of Madinah said everyones saying can either be accepted or rejected except the one in this grave (the Prophet). Perhaps at this juncture it might also be expedient to ask Ahllul-?ilm this specific question in a manner which reflects the opinions expressed here.]]

do you mean the question is it permissible to translate shaikh muqbil?s answer about seeking knowledge from innovators, without mentioning any tafseel about exceptions to the rule. I have already asked the question to one of the people of knowledge and the answer was yes, after I read out all I had translated and added as notes.

Now I think you should close this matter and refer any future questions about any doubts to the people of knowledge and if you feel like something to say, ask a brother who has some understanding, for advice. If there is anything remaining, I am your brother to aid you as much as I can, so you can email me ? amrbasheer at hotmail.  

وصلى الله على نبينا محمد وعلى آله وصحبه وسلم









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