SalafiTalk.Net » New Muslims Forum
» Question about Travel
Search ===>

Part 1Part 2Part 3Part 4Part 5Part 6Part 7Part 8Part 9 • Part 10 • Part 11 • Part 12

   Reply to this Discussion Start new discussion << previous || next >> 
Posted By Topic: Question about Travel

book mark this topic Printer-friendly Version  send this discussion to a friend  new posts last

10-31-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 28
Joined: Sep 2002
assalamu alaikum

I have been reading about traveling (dealing with the women and also combining your prayers) what distance is one considered to be traveling?

11-01-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 97
Joined: Oct 2002
Bismillaah was-salaatu was-salaamu 'alaa Rasoolillaahi wa 'alaa Aalihi wa sahbihi wa 'alaa man walaahu wa ba'd:

In At-Ta'leeqaat uz-Zahiyyah 'alad-Durar il-Bahiyyah, the Matn being by Al-Imaam Ash-Shawkaanee (rahimahullaah), Ash-Shawkaanee said:
يجب القصر على من خرج من بلده قاصدا للسفر و إن كان دون بريد
"Shortening the prayer is obligatory upon whoever leaves out of his city with the intention of traveling, even if it (the travel) is less than a Bareed."

In the footnotes the Mu'alliq says: البريد: أربعة فراسخ كما ذكر ابن تيمية في الفتاوى (24\12) و غيره و الفرسخ ثلاثة أميال
و الراجح أن السفر لا يحد بمسافة معينة و إن ورد عن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم أنه قصر في كذا و كذا. فهذا لا يعني أنها أقل مسافة للقصر و إنما العلة السفر. فلأنه سفر قصر الصلاة. فيرجع في تحديد السفر إلى العرف فما تعارف عليه الناس في بلد أنه سفر فيحق له القصر و الجمع و الفطر و هذا يندرج تحت القاعدة الشرعية: كل حكم حكم الشارع به و لم يحده يرجع فيه إلى العرف

Al-Bareed is four Faraasikh (plural of Farsakh) as was mentioned by Ibn Taymiyyah in Al-Fataawaa (24/12) and others besides him. And the Farsakh is three miles.

And the seemingly correct opinion is that there is no specific distance that has been set as a limit for travel, even though it has been reported from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) that he shortened his prayer at this distance or that distance. This does not mean that it (those distances at which he shortened his prayer) is the minimum distance which could be considered travel. Rather, the only reason (that sanctions shortening the prayer) is travel. Hence, because he traveled, he shortened his prayer. Therefore, in the matter of setting a specific distance for travel, custom is to be referred to. Whatever the people in a land customarily know to be travel, then the person has the right to shorten his prayer, combine his prayer and break his fast (at that distance). This falls under the legal principle: "Every ruling which the Legislator has given and He has not set a limit for it, then custom is referred to in that matter."

pp. 41-42, At-Ta'leeqaat uz-Zahiyyah 'alad-Durar il-Bahiyyah

Also, adding to this, Al-Imaam Ibn Baaz (rahimahullaah) was asked, ما رأي سماحتكم في السفر المبيح للقصر هل هو محدد بمسافة معينة؟
What is your Eminence's opinion regarding the travel which allows shortening prayers, is it restricted to a specific distance?

He (rahimahullaah) replied: جمهور أهل العلم على أنه محدد بمسافة يوم و ليلة للإبل و المشاة السير العادي و ذلك يقارب 80 كيلو لأن هذه المسافة تعتبر سفرا عرفا بخلاف ما دونها

The majority of the people of knowledge hold the view that it (travel) is set at the distance of a day and a night (traveled) by camels and those walking on foot when they are moving at normal pace. And that is close to 80 kilometers, because this is the distance that is considered travel customarily, unlike whatever (distance) is less than that.

Source: Fataawaa Muhimmah Tata'allaqu bis-Salaah, pg. 90, question no.64.

It is obvious that the Shaikh gave his ruling according to what is customarily considered travel for the people there, 80 kilometers.

And Allaah knows best.
Was-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah

Akhukum Aqeel

قال الشيخ ابن باز الطائفة المنصورة هي الفرقة الناجية هما واحدة هم أهل السنة و الجماعة و هم السلفيون

11-08-2008 @ 10:25 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 260
Joined: Sep 2008

11-28-2008 @ 10:15 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
It seems to me that many of the quotes from the early and later scholars are often understood out of context.  Many people assume that since a scholar said "x kilos" or miles, or "x riding stations" or "x days and nights" that they were seeking to define the word "safar" (travelling) for all times and places.  However, many times they were simply stating what travelling was in their time and place.

Notice the clause in the fatwaa attributed to Shaykh Ibn Baaz above: "because this is the distance that is considered travel customarily..."

The best overall understanding is that "What the people consider to be travelling is travelling," since Allaah has mentioned travelling (safar) in His Book and He has not defined it or specified it, nor has His Messenger (sallallaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), so then it is a word understood by the people that is not in need of a new definition.

‎‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎       ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎

"And everything that has come (in the texts) and has not been specified,
--- By the Sharee'ah (texts), like hirz, then specify it by the 'urf (people's general understanding)."

hirz = the obligatory way of preserving one's valued property against theft

From the poetry of Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymeen (may Allaah have Mercy on him).

And Allaah knows best.

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎
‎‎‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎
‎‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎

11-28-2008 @ 10:26 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
problems with defining travelling with a time period:
1- no explicit textual basis
2- nowadays people travel to the other side of the world in the same day, and thus based on this Makkah to China (for example) is not travelling!

problems with defining travelling with a specified distance (kilometers or miles):
1- no explicit textual basis for any number mentioned
2- the occurance of some places in the same city that are more than 80 km (for example) apart (about a 40min drive on the highway) that no one in that area considers to be travelling
3- the occurance of some places that are less than 80km apart, yet the people all consider the journey to be travelling  (due to mountains or bodies of water seperating them, or unpaved roads, etc.)

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎
‎‎‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎
‎‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎

12-16-2008 @ 11:45 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
"...And Allaah, and His Messenger, have made the shortening of the prayer and the breaking of the fast allowed because of travelling, and He did not specify it with a certain distance, nor did He distinguish between short trips and long ones.  Had there been a minimum distance legislated for a trip to be considered travelling, then Allaah and His Messenger would have clarified it.  Nor is there any minimum understood from the linguistic usage of the word (safar), so everything the people of the language consider travelling is that which it is allowed to break one's fast for and shorten one's prayers, as the Book and Sunnah indicate...

...Thus, traveling is a kind of physical movement (from one place to another) that is not limited to an understanding based on distance or time...

...In summary: The (word) safar, traveling, is to be understood in light of its linguistic and customary usage."

- Shaykh al-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allaah have Mercy on him),
abridged from: Majmoo' al-Fataawee (19/243-247)

Moosaa ibn John Richardson

‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎
‎‎‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎
‎‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎

12-18-2008 @ 7:43 AM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 338
Joined: Jul 2007
JazaakumAllahu khayraa.

Beyond the issue of distance of travel, I have a question concerning the LENGTH of one's stay in a place. I believe I have heard that for one who stays for longer than 4 days at the place he traveled to, then he is not considered to be a traveler but I have also heard that this is not the most correct opinion. I would appreciate if someone can clarify this issue for me with proofs and/or statements of the Scholars.

JazaakumAllahu khayraa.

03-23-2009 @ 6:08 PM    Notify Admin about this post
Posts: 5
Joined: Jan 2009
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

Is it necessary to have the intention of 'travel' before leaving the house, to be able to shorten/join the prayers?

For example, I go to a different city to work every day, which is roughly a 45-minute drive. I've never had the intention of travel when going to work. Nor had I earlier had the impression that my commute to/from work could qualify as a reason to shorten and join. To me, the commute on the train is an hour of snoozing time.

I guess my questions are two:
1) would the hour-long commute to work, devoid of any hardship (au contraire: sleep!) count as a trip?
2) if so, would I have to have the intention of traveling when leaving the house, to be able to take advantage of the rukhsa?

Jazakumullahi khayran,

TawhidFirst | Aqidah | AboveTheThrone | Asharis
Madkhalis | Takfiris | Maturidis | Dajjaal
Islam Against Extremism | Manhaj
Ibn Taymiyyah | Bidah
Learn the Arabic Language Through Games and Activities

main page | contact us
Copyright © 2001 - SalafiTalk.Net
Madinah Dates Gold Silver Investments