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Posted By Topic: Rasheed Gonzales Defends Abul-Fitan al-Mubtadi'

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Sunnee
10-02-2002 @ 12:00 AM    Notify Admin about this post
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Posts: 19
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الحمدلله وكفى وسلام على عباده الذين اصطفى، أما بعد:



You said in that article you posted on clearguidance

[Admin: Link to board of dalaalah and misguidance removed! Do NOT allow such links to remain in articles!]

(Link for the article)


1/ "right now, among the 'ulamaa there is not only a difference of opinion regarding the condition of shaikh abul-hasan al-misree but a difference regarding the correctness of some of the arguments against him."


a. Can you name for me the scholars that differ with the CORRECTNESS of the arguments against Abul Hasan, and the places where we can find this.

b. And what arguments are being differed over?


2/ "in situations like this we are to stay out of the affairs of the mashaayikh and let them sort things out. after they have come to an agreement regarding the issue, then we take our positions."


a. Yes everyone should leave these matters to the Scholars and alhamdu lillah all we have to do is convey their words.

b. This sentence opposes the Manhaj of Ahlus sunnah:
"after they have come to an agreement regarding the issue."

This is the speech of Adnaan Aroor and his likes.
What do you mean agreement?
Subhaanallah if we were to only accept JARH ( the criticism) of one the scholars agree on, this would result in a total change in the science of hadeeth.

Ibn Katheer said:

قال الحافظ ابن كثير رحمه الله :"... أما إذا تعارض جرح وتعديل فينبغي أن يكون الجرح حينئذ مفسراً "
(1) - الباعث الحثيث شرح اختصار علوم الحديث صـ(90-91)


" If there was to be a contradiction between the the Jarh (Criticism) and the Ta'deel (Praise), then the criticism should be explained."

Ahmed Shaakir said:

" قال: الشيخ أحمد شاكر : "إذا أجتمع جرح بيّن السبب وتعديل فالجرح مقدم وإن كثر عدد المعدلين لأن مع الجارح زيادة علم لم يطلع عليه المعدل ولأنه مصدق للمعدل فيما أخبر به عن ظاهر حاله ? "(1) - الباعث الحثيث شرح اختصار علوم الحديث صـ(90-91)

" If there is a Jarh (criticism) whose reason has been explained and a Ta'deel (Praise), then the criticism has precedence even if the number of Mu'addillon (Those praising) are many, because the one who is criticising has additional knowledge which the Mu'addil has not come across and also due to the fact that the ( Jaarih) is affirming that which the mu'addil has reported from the apparent state ( of the one who has been criticised)..."


c. Again we advise our brother return back to the books of Mustalah and study this issue.
If you claim there has to be agreement of the scholars before we can abandon an individual or group then Ihyaa Turaath cannot be abandoned, Adnaan Aroor who Imaam Ibn Uthaymeen, Imaam Muqbil Ibn Haadi, Allaamah Fawzaan, Allaamah Abdul Muhsin, Allaamah Rabee and others all critcised him but you still have some of the students of knowledge who haven't openly done so.
Magrawi as well, and there are many others.
Ajeeb people were using the same argument for Safar and Salmaan.


3/ " and that is that a number of the kibaar ul-'ulamaa have advised us not to busy ourselves with this fitnah and to busy ourselves with seeking knowledge."

a. Yes we should not busy ourselves with anything except knowledge, but is transmitting the words of the scholars FITNAH?

b. Alhamdu lillah the salafis Ahlus sunnah are the greatest of the people in striving for Ilm.


4/ " if shaikh abul-hasan is right, then he's right and we defend him. if he's wrong, then he's wrong and we warn against him. but right now, it is not clear whether he is right or wrong."

a. Yes we aid the truth and its people.

b. Abul Hasan is wrong as Shaykh Muhammed Al-Banna, Shaykh Ahmed An-Najmi, Shaykh Rabee, Shaykh Ubaid, Shaykh Zaid Ibn Haadi, Shaykh Faalih, Shaykh Muhammed Ibn Abdil Wahaab, Shaykh Muhammed Al-Imaam, Shaykh Yahya Al-Hajoori and others have stated.
And Alhamdu lillah from these shuyookh we find those who have done so with a detailed crticism.

c. Brother it might not be clear to you so i think you should speak on behalf of yourself and make the statement nisbi not Aam.
As for the scholars and students of knowledge who have spoke then it is clear for them.


5/ "and this is obvious from the ikhtilaaf amongst the scholars with regards to this situation."

a. And alhamdu lillah we have mentioned the path of Ahlul Hadeeth when dealing with these differences a few times, the Jarh Mufassar has precedence.
So why do we not submit to the manhaj of Ahlul Hadeeth and leave the speech of those who oppose them


6/ "there is a great difference between the situation with abul-hasan al-ma'ribee and the situations with shaikhs safar and salmaan. i don't know any of the 'ulamaa who have differed regarding the conditions of safar and salmaan, save one or two of the salafi mashaayikh."

a. This shows yr confusion about the issue as earlier you said there has to be an agreement.
Then you affirm that one or two of the salafi mashaayikh (allah knows best who u are referring to) differ about salmaan or safar, so based upon the principle you laid down earlier we should also reject the kalaam of the scholars about Salmaan and Safar until they agree.

b. Again confusion comes when leaving the manhaj of Ahlul Ilm Ahlul Hadeeth.

c. Even those who are the defenders of the Qutubis have spotted your contradiction and they are the most ignorant and confused of people about this science, when one of them said:

" The thing that disgusts me about it is, why dont they jump and join in this refutation of Abu Hassan, if this was Sheikh so and So, or anyone they had never heard of before, or already did not like, they would jump on this bandwagon and not jump to his defense."

and:

"The only difference is they never liked, some of the other scholars that Admin wishes to defend the honour of (like Sheikh Salman and Safar), but they have liked Sheikh Abu Hassan for many years.

Total Hypocritical Behavior, and total Biased Partisanship"


7/ "if it is found and agreed upon by the 'ulamaa that shaikh abul-hasan al-misree is correct, then we defend him."

a. Again you repeat this false principle about agreement.

b. Look how this defender of Bid'ah and its people replied to you when you affirmed that one or two of the Mashaayikh differ with regard Salmaan and Safar:

"And many of us here think the Truth is with those one or two, of which I am sure there are more. And we are entitled to this opinion as the scholars have differed on it (whether you like it or not), and as you say, the issue while its "cystal clear" to you, is not "crystal clear" to us, and many others, for good reason."


8/ When this miskeen confused you, he forced you to come with another false principle when you said:

" this is one or two opposed to the majority of the shuyookh. and these couple of mashaayikh opposing the majority are in opposition to those who are greater than them in both knowledge and virtue."

a. So now you have left your principle of agreement to majority.


9/ "as for the issue being clear, then alhamdulillaah it is crystal clear regarding the affairs of shaikhs safar and salmaan. and if it is true that this issue is not clear for many of you, then the most correct position to take is to not take any position at all - until things have become clear for you. wallaahu a'lam."

a. Wallahi ya akhi i advise myself and you to fear Allaah and not to speak without Ilm, as i have spotted and highlighted throughout this treatise that you do not have a clue concerning that which you are talking about, you are confusing yourself and others and making the salafis ahlul hadeeth look confused and ignorant.

b. This mistake has been made publicly so i am freeing ahlul hadeeth of the mistakes openly, and in no way is this an attack upon our brother Rasheed Gonzales, but rather a correction of his errors.

c. Those who are confused then all you have to do is accept the words of the scholars and implement the principles we have mentioned briefly above and you will be safe inshaa Allaah.
As for the brothers statement:
"then the most correct position to take is to not take any position at all."

This sounds like a manzilah bayna manziltayn, rather be with Ahlus sunnah and stay away from Ahlul Bid'ah, read what the salaf said about sitting with the innovators, and about those who sit with the innovators.


Lastly those people who keep repeating stay away from this FITNAH they are the ones lighting its fire, and we advise them to learn and attain Ilm as even the ignorant are confusing them.

This message was edited by Admin on 10-2-02 @ 11:17 PM

sajid_chauhan_81
02-27-2009 @ 11:37 PM    Notify Admin about this post
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Posts: 2031
Joined: Jul 2005
          
quote:

Ahmed Shaakir said:

"‎‎‎: ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ : "‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎ "(1) - ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎ ‎‎‎‎‎‎ ‎‎(90-91)

" If there is a Jarh (criticism) whose reason has been explained and a Ta'deel (Praise), then the criticism has precedence even if the number of Mu'addillon (Those praising) are many, because the one who is criticising has additional knowledge which the Mu'addil has not come across and also due to the fact that the (Jaarih) is affirming that which the mu'addil has reported from the apparent state ( of the one who has been criticised)..."






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