| Posted By |
Topic: The Sutrah
|
|
 mujaahidirlande
|
|
Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
|
To the students of knowledge:
I posted a question some time back regarding movement in prayer so as to maintain a sutrah. It is well known that it is permissible to move forward or to the side. However I recall reading that it was also permissible to move backwards. Is this correct? References please.
JazakAllahuKhairan
Mujaahid
verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.
|
|
| abu.abdurrahman
|
|
Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sep 2002
|
Asalamu Alaykum yaa akhee,
Kayfahalukka?
If you are referring about pulling someone back in pray or making a line behind the row with someone who is a late addition to the congregation I will post the question and answer by Shaikh Al Albanee(Rahimallahu Ta'ala) below:
[23] Question: If you enter the masjid and the first row of prayer is complete, can you pull someone from it behind so that he can pray with you (in the second row) or should you just pray by yourself?
Answer: If the hadeeth about pulling someone back from the first row so that one would not pray alone in the second row were authentic, it would be obligatory to base the opinion on it. However, its chain of narration is not authentic, as I have explained in Irwaa-ul-Ghaleel and As-Silsilah Ad-Da'eefah (second volume). Therefore so long as this hadeeth is not authentic, then the person who enters the masjid and the row of prayer in front of him is complete, he must try to squeeze into the row that is before him. This is possible in most cases, during this era in which a majority of Muslims have abandoned the act of joining tightly (by squeezing together) in the lines of prayer, for many of them do not stand close together in the lines of prayer. So if he finds that the row is complete, he should try his best to find an empty space in it, even if he has to gesture to the one he wants to pray next to, to make some space for him to enter.
But if he is not able to do this, either because the people in the row are closely packed together or because some of the people praying do not make room for him, then he could stand in the second row by himself, and his prayer will be valid. This is because the Prophet's saying,
"There is no prayer for the one who prays in the row by himself"
is only in reference to the extent of one's ability and adequacy to perform all the rest of the acts of worship. We know, for example, that standing for the obligatory prayer is a pillar (of the prayer). Therefore, if one prays sitting while he has the ability to stand, his prayer is not valid. However, if he is not able to stand, then he could pray sitting, as the Prophet, sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam, said:
"Pray standing. But if you are not able to, then sitting. But if you are not able to, then on your bed."
This goes the same for the case of the individual who prays behind the row by himself, in that his condition is that he is not able to join into the row that is before him. So the hadeeth, "There is no prayer for the one who prays alone behind the row", is most likely applicable to the person that takes this issue lightly or to the one who turns away from this legal ruling. As has been done by many people, especially those mu'addhins who do not join into the rows, but rather pray by themselves in places near to the door (of the masjid). So these individuals are the ones whom the hadeeth is directed to. As for the man who enters the masjid and tries to join into the row but is not able to, nor does anyone come that will join him (in the second row), then he can pray by himself. And Allaah does not burden a soul with a responsibility, except that He has given it the ability to fulfill the responsibility. And this is the view of Shaykh-ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah. [Al-Asaalah, Issue #10]
Was Salam
Akhook fil Islaam
Abu Abdurrahman as Salafee al Kanadi
|
|
| mujaahidirlande
|
|
Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
|
JazakAllahuKhairan brother, however I am not referring to the action of pulling someone back and I accept what Shaikh AlAlbani says in this regard.
Rather my question revolves around the importance of the sutrah and the movement one may take so as to maintain the sutrah. To my knowledge, moving forward and to the side are established. Moving backwards so as to maintain the sutrah is the import of my question.
Here in Saudi Arabia, and I do not wish for anyone to misunderstand what I am about to say, for despite certain shortcomings in regard to the noble sunnah of our Prophet I consider myself priviledged to reside here amongst Muslims, in the land of Tawheed, amid the scholars of renown, may Allah preserve them.there is an apparant disregard for the importance of the sutrah.
Most of the masaajid are quite large and as a consequence many of the prayers are held in the middle of the masjid. If one arrives late and perhaps misses one rakat (and you are standing in the first line), once the imaam makes tasleem and is no longer a sutrah for you, you are faced with only two choices, unless you are fortunate enough take up a position behind one of the Qur'an stands, which isn't always possible.
1. You can follow the majority and pray without a sutrah.
2. You can take a step or two backwards and use the person who was beside you and is now in front of you as a sutrah.
No. 1, for me, is not an option I would choose to follow.
No. 2 appears to be the only plausable position but I am without the proof to do so. I do recall reading that Abu Bakr stepped backwards, but from what I remember this was to allow the Prophet to take over as the imaam and not to ensure that he have a sutrah.
So if you can help now that you have some more information I would be very grateful.
BarakAllahu fiq
Mujaahid
verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.
|
|
| s.alhashimi
|
|
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Oct 2002
|
if you are in saudia as you say amongst our ulama, then why don't you pose the questions to them ? And relay the answers to us. barakullahu feekum.
|
|
| Moosaa
|
|
Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
|
If you are making up rak'ahs after the congragational prayer has ended, there is nothing obliging you to move to take a sutrah. Some of the 'ulamaa', like Imaam Maalik for example, mentioned the PERMISSIBILITY (not the OBLIGATION) of moving forward a step or two to take a sutrah.
As for the Muslims praying without a sutrah in the kingdom here, and elsewhere, then it is a result of three reasons that I see:
1 - ignorance
2 - heedlessness - for the one who knows but forgets
3 - disobedience - for the one who knows and remembers but just does not care
As people who call to the way of Allaah, we assume about each individual Muslim that he is ignorant of the obligation of praying with a sutrah, especially since the books of the mathaahib are full of explanations about the sutrah, that it is only mustahabb, or that it is for the imaam only, or that it is not needed in Makkah, etc. This helps us to feel good about the Muslims and advise them, having husnuth-thann for them, that they will act upon the Sunnah when it reaches them.
And Allaah knows best.
Moosaa
********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
|
|
| mujaahidirlande
|
|
Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
|
JazakAllahu Khairan Moosa,
As the imaam is no longer considered a sutrah for the one making up a rakah, as he (the imaam) is no longer in prayer then if a person passed in front of the individual making up those rak'aat he would be obliged to repel him.
One of the reasons for a sutrah is to prevent the Shaytaan from breaking your prayer "When one of you prays toward a sutrah, he should get close to it so that the Shaytaan cannot break his prayer"(1) and his saying " Do not pray except towards a sutrah, and do not let anyone pass in front of you, but if someone continues then fight him, for he has a companion with him."(2)
From what I understand the person making up rak'aat would be obliged to repel the one walking in front of him hence the necessity, nay the obligation of a sutrah. So once again, is a movement backwards permissable to fulfill that obligation?
BarakAllahu fiq
Mujaahid
(1) Abu dawood, Bazzaar (p.54 -Zawaaid) & Haaakim, who declared it saheeh and Dhahabi and Nawawi agreed.
(2) Ibn Khuzaimah in his Saheeh (1/93/1) with a sound isnaad.
verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.
|
|
| aqeel.walker
|
|
Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Oct 2002
|
Salaamun 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah,
Just to add what our brother Moosaa, hafithahullaah, has said, here is another side to the issue.
This is a question that was directed to al-Imaam 'Abdul-'Azeez bin Baaz (rahimahullaah):
Question: Many of the brothers are very strict in the matter of the Sutrah, so much so that a person will wait until a Sutrah becomes available (before praying) if he is in a Masjid and he doesn't find an empty pillar (i.e. a pillar that doesn't already have someone prayig toward it). Also, he will rebuke those who do not pray towards a Surtah. Some other people are lax in this matter (of praying toward a Sutrah). So what is the truth in this? And does the line (drawn on the ground) take the place of the Sutrah when one is not available, and is there anything reported that proves this?
Answer: Praying towards a Sutrah is a stressed Sunnah (Sunnah Mu'akkadah) and it is NOT OBLIGATORY (laysat waajibah). So if a person does not find anything erected (to use as a Sutrah) then the line (on the ground) suffices him. And the proof concerning what we have mentioned is his (the Prophet's), sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, statement, "When one of you prays, let him pray toward a Sutrah and let him draw near to it." Reported by Aboo Dawud with an authentic (Saheeh) chain of narration. And his, sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, statement, "The Muslim man's prayer is cut off, if there is not in front of him something like the end of a saddle, by: the woman, the donkey and the black dog." Reported by Muslim in his Saheeh.
There is also the statement of the Prophet, sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, "When one of you prays, then let him place something in front of his face (i.e. like a wall or pillar), and if he does not find anything, then let him erect a stick, and if does not find one, then let him draw a line (on the ground), then whoever passes in front of him will not harm him." Reported by Al-Imaam Ahmad and Ibn Maajah with a good (Hasan) chain of narration. This is what was said by Al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar, rahimahullaah, in Bulooghul-Maraam. And it has been confirmed from him, sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam, that he sometimes prayed towards other than a sutrah (i.e. without one), and this proves that it is not obligatory (Waajibah). And excluded from this (prayer towards a Sutrah) is the prayer in Al-Masjid ul-Haraam, for verily the person who prays (in Al-Masjid ul-Haraam in Makkah) does not need a Sutrah in it. This is due to what is confirmed from Ibn Az-Zubayr (radhiyallaahu 'anhumaa) that he used to pray in Al-Masjid ul-Haraam towards other than a Sutrah (i.e. without one) and the people making Tawaaf would be in front of him (i.e. passing in front of him). It has also been reported from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) that which proves this, but it's chain of narration is weak.
And because Al-Masjid ul-Haraam is usually expected to be crowded and there is a lack of ability to safe from people passing in front of the one who is praying, then this legislation is dropped in this case due to what has preceded. Also, Al-Masjid un-Nabawee is included in this ruling during the time when there is crowding, and likewise other places of crowding. This is acting according to the statement of Allaah, 'Azza wa Jall, "So fear Allaah as much as you are able." [At-Taghaabun:16]
And the Prophet's (sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) statement, "If I have commanded you with something, then do it as much as you are able." It's authenticity is agree upon. And Allaah is the Giver of success.
Ash-Shaikh 'Abdul-'Azeez bin 'Abdullaah bin Baaz
Source: Fataawaa Muhimmah Tata'allaqu bis-Salaah, pp. 36-38, no. 24.
Translated by Aqeel Walker
So this position also gives you an idea of why people in the Kingdom may not be soooo strict as we may want them to be about a Sutrah. They definitely do not consider it a sinful act to pray without one as our brother mujaahidirlande, hafithahullaah, feels.
Many other scholars hold this same opinion in the Kingdom, like Shaikh Saalih Al-Fawzaan (hafithahullaah) for example.
Baarakallaahu feekum,
was-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah
قال الشيخ ابن باز الطائفة المنصورة هي الفرقة الناجية هما واحدة هم أهل السنة و الجماعة و هم السلفيون
|
|
| Moosaa
|
|
Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sep 2002
|
Akhee Mujaahid -
Baarak Allaahu feekum.
Imaam Maalik said: "It is not a problem for the one who makes up some part of the prayer after the imaam finishes to move slightly to something near to him, like a pillar in front of him, or on his right or left, OR BEHIND him, he backs up towards it and takes it as a sutrah so long as it is close by. If it is far away, he remains standing (in his place), and repels those who may pass in front of him to the best of his ability."
[Sharh Az-Zarqaanee 'alaa Mukhtasir Khaleel 1/208, as found in Akhtaa' Al-Musalleen of Mash-hoor Hasan Salmaan p.87]
As for your statement:
"From what I understand the person making up rak'aat would be obliged to repel the one walking in front of him hence the necessity, nay the obligation of a sutrah."
I believe you are saying that it is OBLIGATORY to move after the imaam finishes, to take a sutrah. If this is what you are saying, then who has preceded you in this from the 'ulamaa'?
May Allaah reward you.
Moosaa
********************
سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك
|
|
| mujaahidirlande
|
|
Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
|
Dear brother Moosa, may Allah reward you,
I am ever conscious of the statement of our noble Prophet that excessive questioning destroyed those that came before us.
However, being in a position of weakness, I'm speaking of myself here, in not being able to articulate myself adequately enough to go to the scholars, in not being grounded enough to read the voluminous texts of the scholars both past and present and in being straddled by work and time constraints I rely on good brothers like yourself, who, maashaAllah, it would appear are studious, serious students of 'ilm.
Your statement 'who has preceded you in this' is more than valid, please note however dear brother that I am using what I know and presenting it so that those who know better can either confirm or guide me to that which is better.
When presented with an opinion, if I know of something contrary to it then I respond with that, the ultimate aim being to arrive at the truth of the matter.
So, may Allah reward you again, I am not aware of those who have preceded me in this statement but I have not stated it as a 'fatwa'(as if an ignoramus like myself should dare) to be followed, merely posing what I see and understand from the authentic texts as a means of arriving at the truth.
Some may find fault with this approach but surely the one who knows is better than the one who doesn't, and that is my aim, to know! Again in the words of our Prophet 'verily questioning removes ignorance.'
verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.
|
|
| mujaahidirlande
|
|
Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Oct 2002
|
Brothers Moosa and Aqeel, may Allah reward you both
Two things worthy of mention here:
1. I haven't stated that it is a sinful act to pray without a sutrah, nor have I stated that it is obligatory to move to maintain the sutrah.
2. Shaikh Al Albani held that it was obligatory for the one praying to have a sutrah and was quite scathing towards the opinion held here in the kingdom.
3. Both you (Moosa)and Aqeel have inferred certain opinions from my comments,namely that I consider it sinful not to have a sutrah and that I consider it obligatory for the one praying to move so as to maintain a sutrah .
And this I feel is a result of the weakness in my questioning and subsequent responses, so may Allah reward you both for your patience, please overlook these infractions on my part and know that ignorant ones such as I, whilst desiring knowledge,will stumble and err but never intentionally so, inshaAllah.
verily the cure for all ignorance is to question.
|
|
|
12-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
13-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM
15-11-2002 @ 12:00 AM