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Topic: Shaikh Ubaid al-Jaabiree on The Situation in Which there are no Salafee Mosques, or Any Group of Salafees in the Area
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 naasir.ud-deen
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Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Oct 2002
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Shaikh Ubaid al-Jaabiree on The Situation in Which there are no Salafee Mosques, or Any Group of Salafees in the Area
I have been thinking carefully over a few days as to whether I should raise this particular matter or not. However, today when I saw the fitnah that is now emerging on that Salaf not Khalaf forum, I decided to post this:
This is just to point out that a few individuals on the Salaf not Khalaf forum (a new platform for the hidden Mumayyi'een amongst the Salafees to make attacks and slanders against those who are clear in their manhaj and dawah such as troid and spubs) are twisting some words of Shaikh Ubaid al-Jaabiree and trying to apply the answer he gave - which was specific to a situation he was asked about, over six years ago - to a completely different situation today that has been made clear by the brothers who have posted information here about what is taking place in Birmingham. Read what I have quoted below more completely and compare it to those who clipped the words of the Shaikh for their own goals.
The context is where there is a place in which there are no Salafees or any Salafee mosque in the Western lands. The people of hizbiyyah invite a well known caller known for Salafiyyah to speak there, is it permissible for him to cooperate with them? And what if these people of hizbiyyah like Ikhwaanees or Tableeghees do link ups with Scholars, can you benefit from that seeing that there are no Salafee mosques or centres in the area? This is what the Shaikh is answering and he is addressing specifically the limits of necessity, as the questioner asks him. Here is a more lengthier piece of the passage than quoted by the Mumayyi'ah on Salaf not Khalaf.
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"What I mean Shaykh, is that one of the Islaamic callers well-known to us for their being Salafees, if one of them used this principle and said, ?We do not have the opportunity to speak in front of the people or to give a lecture except by way of them.? This occurs and is known particularly in my area, there is no group of Salafees with us, nor any brothers except a very small number. But it may occur that these people, be they Ikhwaanees, or Tableeghees have organized a lecture and call us to speak. So we cannot manage to do this ourselves. So this is my question Shaykh, should we use this principle that you have mentioned, that deserting those people will harm us more than co-operating with them in some matters, and we will give up our ?aqeedah and our manhaj."
?I have mentioned to you, may Allaah bless you, about all these new jamaa?aat, and have explained to you what I hold with regards to co-operating with them in da?wah activities. So I say to you: if you are able to call in a mosque, in a society, and propagate the Salafee da?wah, then keep away from what they organize. But when there is necessity, then as is necessary. Do you understand? The basic principle with us is that it is not allowed. So I say: here in al-Madeenah, if I were to be invited to a gathering that was not Salafee, in a place, not Salafee, then I would not be prepared to go. But a necessity is dealt with as needed. A necessity is dealt with as needed. But what is known from those people is that this is a temporary affair. They just want to attract people. They would be prepared to bring Shaykh ?Abdul-?Azeez Ibn Baaz, if he would go, they would bring him. The people of innovation from olden times have hypocrisy. The people of innovation have hypocrisy.
Therefore Abul-Fadl al-Hamdaanee (rahimahullaah) said, ?The fabricator of ahaadeeth, and the innovator in Islaam are worse than the atheists from outside.? Meaning, the disbeliever will not be able to damage the Muslims as much as the innovator. So if you brought two men, one named George or Joseph and another called ?Umar or Muhammad. So most of the Muslims would listen to whom; to Muhammad. But as for that one, they would flee from him naturally. Do you understand this? So you should beware, it is not essential, may Allaah bless you, for da?wah, that you have such and such, and you have a large audience. Rather you give da?wah, if you cannot enter a society, then give da?wah to your family or near relatives. Your brothers, your sisters, your uncles, and aunts, and so on, your family. So if you are able to do more, then a mosque near to you if you have the opportunity, then propagate the Salafee ?aqeedah. So the Prophet (sallallaahu ?alayhi wa sallam) sat in Makkah propagating the da?wah openly for ten years; and for three years secretly before that, after which he was allowed to call the tribes. So what is desired is that we proceed gently according to our ability. Humans have limited ability. So some people bring benefit with their writings which are disseminated, some people bring benefit with their talks, when he explains, sits in a mosque or teaches in a school, teaching Tawheed, fiqh, and the Sunnah. So Allaah causes that to be of benefit. It is not a requirement that there be a lot of people, not at all. We would love that all the people should be Muslims and Salafees, by Allaah we would love that. As our Lord wished, as Allaah the Mighty and Majestic wished, that all the people should be Muslims. But we cannot go beyond our capability. So be aware, be people of awareness, be aware ? particularly the bigger students of knowledge amongst you, since those people will seek to use them in order to gain the rest of the people. So they will say, ?Look at so and so, he qualified from the Islaamic University, Dr. So and so, or the great teacher so and so, the one qualified from the Islaamic University, he works along with us. Who are you, you are in the second year of college, and you criticize us! This is Dr. So and so who works along with us...Dr. so and so from the state of such and such works along with us, what are you, you are a small student, you do not know anything.? But when this Dr. who qualified from the Islaamic University gathers together his brothers who are upon his manhaj, and he teaches them, he teaches them and makes the truth clear to them, and cultivates them and educates them, then this is good.?
"Shaykh, what are the limits of necessity Shaykh, since some people may say that a situation is one of necessity, when there is no necessity."
?It is possible that if we said that this mosque, in a state of America, or in Britain and you cannot act, except in this mosque. So you have to teach Kitaabut-Tawheed in it, or Fiqh, with proofs in that mosque. You have no other choice. The...(not clear)...do you understand? Yes.?
"If they organize a link up with Shaykh ?Abdul-?Azeez Ibn Baaz, shall we attend?"
?Yes, there is no harm. If it is to benefit from Shaykh Ibn Baaz, then there is no harm. For example, Shaykh Ibn Baaz gives a lecture, there is no harm, you may attend. But as for their Shaykhs, then no, such as ?Abdur-Rahmaan ?Abdul-Khaaliq, such as Yoosuf al-Qardaawee, and others, then do not attend, since if you attend then your brothers will be deceived by you. But if there is a lecture by Shaykh ?Abdul-?Azeez Ibn Baaz, then there is no harm.?
"Shaykh, what is meant is that they organize link ups with some Shaykhs from here, such as Shaykh ?Abdul-?Azeez Ibn Baaz and Shaykh Ibnul-?Uthaymeen in large halls, and they organize link ups, fataawaa, so the brother means should we attend these?"
?Yes, I said there is no harm. Benefit from Shaykh Ibn Baaz, this is your Shaykh. Shaykh ?Abdul-?Azeez is your Shaykh in reality, and their Shaykh only for their purposes. So you are upon the manhaj of Shaykh ?Abdul-?Azeez, and they are not upon his manhaj. But they have their goals, but you may listen to your Shaykh, there is no harm in that.
But you will not hear, if Allaah wills, that ?Ubayd al-Jaabiree participated along with Ihyaa?ut-Turaath, nor in any Ikhwaanee place, even if it is with you in America. If I visit America, then by Allaah, by Allaah, by Allaah, if Allaah wills, I will not sit, except with the Salafees, even if there are only ten of them.
By Allaah, if it was said to me that in such and such a mosque ? I do not know the names of your mosques ? there are a thousand, or two thousand, but over there is a Salafee mosque with ten people. I would say, ?Bismillaah, let us go to the ten, they are my brothers.? Do you understand? May Allaah bless you.? |
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What relation has this to a situation where a Salafee mosque exists and Tawheed, Aqeedah and Manhaj has been taught and there are weekly links with the scholars and there are hundreds of Salafees all united. Then a group split off and try to establish a new group doing lessons and a conference in the next road down, according to the reports on this forum?
The situation Shaikh Ubaid is speaking about is one of necessity where Salafees don't exist, with no mosque or centre etc. and what are the limits of cooperation and to what extent can one benefit from the activities of the Hizbees. The Mumayyi'ah are trying to apply this to a situation where iftiraaq is being caused before their very eyes in the midst of a large group of Salafees where a Salafee Masjid exists upon the Salafee manhaj, yet those who split off are using the Scholars themselves as a means to cause this iftiraaq and to justify their split - even after all the scholars advised them to be united and together.
So be warned against these hidden Mumayyi'ah on the Salaf not Khalaf forum who are upon ignorance and speak upon a whim and do not understand the words of the Scholars. They are using specific verdicts given by the scholars to specific situations they were asked about many years ago to new situations that have occurred today and to which the original answer of the Shaikh might not be relevant from all angles, and which might have their own unique affairs that need addressing in a different light (because of the reality of the situation that is different). I have personally come across so many shubuhaat on that forum posted by ignorant people, inshaa'allaah if it is not a waste of time, I invite the other students of knowledge on this forum to repel them. I am sure they will have recognised the evil now coming from the direction of that forum. I can quite categorically say that from what I have read so far those individuals writing on that forum when they attack other Salafees and speak on important contemporary issues have nothing of knowledge to offer at all. Just confusion. And there are some hefty slanders been posted up there recently as well!
This message was edited by naasir.ud-deen on 7-7-03 @ 11:21 PM
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| ekbal.hussain
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Member
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Jazzak Allahu Khair akhi Naasir Uddin!
Mash Allah your post is Extremely beneficial! I was hoping someone would address this matter on this forum.
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| naasir.ud-deen
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Member
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Salaf not Khalaf Is a Platform for Ahl ul-Ahwaa Who Spread Tribulations
Read here the clarification from Shaikh Ahmad an-Najmee:
Another of the calamities on that forum is that those who have been given the responsibility to run it are extremely ignorant of manhaj issues which again is a matter that I think has already been raised about their moderation. The most recent proof is the fact that they have not seen through the Ahl ul-Ahwaa who are causing tribulations, exactly as Shaikh Ahmad an-Najmee has explained. I actually fear that the real orientation of those people behind that board is that they may have been Maghrawi and Maribee followers who have made outward attachment to the Scholars, but their hearts may still be upon that corrupt walaa and baraa that is a sign of all those people who got burned by al-Maribees fitnah. Again this fear is only based upon what is apparent. There is no other way to explain their strange actions over the past week. Either this, which would explain why they are deliberately allowing certain posts which contain slanders against well known, good and clear Salafees and most probably pretending to dissaprove of them but not really doing a good job of it, and also the posts that are attacking Shaikh Fawzee al-Bahrainee. Or they are ignorant people who don't have a clue about the responsibility they have taken upon themselves or have been given by the owner in running that board, something that other brothers here have raised before.
In fact one of those individuals even alludes to Abdullah al-Farsis refutation of Shaikh Fawzee when he says:
"yes unfortunately fawzee al-atharee has written a response that is published on sihab but some salafis have responded to it on tape - email me if you need the link"
And what he is referring to in reality when he says "some salafis" is that deviant qutubi turathi called Abdullah al-Farsi and his tapes that have been put online by some ignorant fools. So this is the way Salaf not Khalaf has become, because those behind it do not have any backbone so too is the product, boneless. Which is why you see these subtle, but extremely dangerous things passing under their noses, but at the same time, they are allowing, with full knowledge, certain people to attack other Salafees and spread some really serious slanders, especially what they have allowed concerning the brothers at spubs.
I have also realised that the few attacks they have made upon Salafitalk and some of its members who have raised valid points and given naseehah which is definately appropriate, are very shallow and childish and are not based upon knowledge or manhaj. If it is worth it I will gather them together for all to see and comment upon them.
This message was edited by naasir.ud-deen on 7-8-03 @ 2:42 AM
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| naasir.ud-deen
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Member
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A point I forgot to mention, that person calling himself "salafi-brother" who was the ignorant person who started off the issue that I raised in the first post in this thread is someone who is known by many members and former-members of Salaf not Khalaf (and even the admins themselves) to be suspectful because of the initial posts he started putting in. Many people saw what he was getting at, and some of his posts were removed by the admin. Even though they were posts from people of knowledge concerning certain subjects, it was clear that he was a Mumayyi' who was trying to spread confusion. Yet after all that Salaf not Khalaf is happy to allow him to spread even more doubts in exactly the same way as he was doing before.
This background information is another proof to show that Salaf not Khalaf has become a platform for Ahl ul-Ahwaa who play with the words of the Scholars to defend falsehood and fitnah and its people.
This message was edited by naasir.ud-deen on 7-7-03 @ 11:47 PM
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| shahid393
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Member
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Joined: Sep 2002
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jazakallaahu khayr, akhee!
shahid williams
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| naasir.ud-deen
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Member
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Amongst the jahl that is so evident on Salaf not Khalaf is what was displayed by a person who has been given the level of administrator. This person was the individual who started off a thread that really set off this recent round of fitnah, something about "internet wars". It was actually this thread that put the nail in the coffin of Salaf not Khalaf and by which its true colors became visible (when this in turn started off a series of threads in the past week or two that became the basis for lies and slanders upon Salafees and Salafee organisations and which did nothing except aid the people of iftiraaq).
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Abu Sara
Posted - 06/06/2003 : 15:04:45 Report this Post
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Ya Akhi Abu Ukkaasha Could you at all provide evidences for what you are saying?
Your first sentance, you failed to give your side of the vidence to substanciate your stance?
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***This totally incorrect as there is no evidence for this in the Deen of Islaam
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Whats your proof for you say this statment?
Abu Sara Abdur-rahman
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Edited by - Abu Sara on 06/06/2003 15:06:12
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Just reflect upon the above statement, when the brother Abu Ukkaasha explains that the claim that a witness or attending a mosque is not required for a person's shahadah to be valid, and says, "This totally incorrect as there is no evidence for this in the Deen of Islaam" which is the correct way to explain this, look at the way Abu Sara replies, indicating a severe lack of appreciation of basic principles of Islaam.
He says "Whats your proof for you say this statment?"
When you negate the existence of proof, that itself is the proof for the issue at hand. To then request proof for this shows jahl that a person who has been made an administrator to check, edit, review, approve and correct other posts (all of which requires a certain degree of knowledge and understanding), can not display. Is this not a sign of the hour where people are put in positions they are not fit for? As if this deen is a light matter or something that can be played with for temporary enjoyment, and people who most probably do not even know the basics of the religion are put forward to present their silly opinions on great and serious matters.
Since then Abu Sara has been made an administrator by the owners of that site. And that is the most amazing of affairs (when one looks carefully at Abu Sara's posts in general). This partly explains the degeneration that is now apparent. If that is the level of knowledge of the adminstrators who are running the show, then what capabilities will they have in dealing swiftly with matters and issues raised that are way beyond their level of sophistication to understand and deal with in accordance with Sharee'ah principles and the Salafee manhaj?
This message was edited by naasir.ud-deen on 7-8-03 @ 3:07 AM
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07-07-2003 @ 9:32 PM
07-07-2003 @ 10:15 PM