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Topic: when can she marry
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 Abu.Hafs.Bilaal
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Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Apr 2003
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Bismillah walHamdulillah wa Salaatu wa Salaam ala Rasoolulah
As salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
A pregnant sister's husband died. She delivered the baby 3 weeks later. What is the earliest time she can entertain inquiries for marriage?Is there a waiting period after the delivery considering she is a new widow?
Jazakallahu khairan for any of the students of knowledge or mashaikh who can help me with this.
wassalaam abuhafs bilaal as salafi
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| talibdeenrashad
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Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Oct 2002
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Wa 'alaykee Salaam,
Maybe this will help.
And those of you who die and leave wives behind them, they (the wives) shall wait (as regards their marriage) for four months and ten days, then when they have fulfilled their term, there is no sin on you if they (the wives) dispose of themselves in a just and honourable manner (i.e. they can marry). And Allâh is Well-Acquainted with what you do. (Al-Baqarah 2:234)
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| Admin
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Administrator
Posts: 204
Joined: Jan 2002
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As Salaamu Alaykum
What you are suggesting is that "Maybe" the woman has to wait four months and ten days.
Please refrain from answering questions by saying "Maybe". Either you know the specific answer with its evidence to the specific question with full knowledge, or you do not. In which case it is better to keep silent. Otherwise this is speaking about the deen without knowledge and certainty.
A reminder to everyone that this will not be tolerated on this forum.
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=203
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Alhamdulillah Was Salatu Was Salamu Alaa Ashrafil-Anbiyaa. Wa Ba'd:
Over the past week or so we have become concerned with a number of trends on this board. And in the past day or two our concerns have been confirmed by other board members who have shared our feelings and offered their naseeha, jazaahumullaahu khairan. As people who subscribe to the manhaj of the Salaf and who implement in practically, then we should be aware of the following affairs:
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This, we believe is something that is already understood and known to most of us, since this is from those things that make us Salafis, and distinguish us from others, and there is no need to enter into detail in these matters here.
In light of this we are unhappy with the fact that a number of people have been very quick in expressing opinions, being bold to answer questions, and putting themselves forward to speak and offer answers, despite the fact that there are on this board students who have graduated from al-Jaami'ah al-Islaamiyyah, or who are currently studying there, and students of Shaykh Muqbil (rahimahullaah) and also many brothers in Saudi and Kuwait, who are in close proximity with the people of knowledge, who have not seen it fit to speak themselves. So despite all of this, some individuals have been coming out and expressing views and opinions, which were not free from error. This has occurred from brothers and sisters.
As one of our noble brothers, who is also concerned about this, observed:
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| "We see questions are been posted by people and some of our sincere brothers and sisters are answering them as fast as they are posted, and we ask Allah to reward them for their efforts. But we see this as door for Shay'taan to enter and cause fitnah and discredit your noble efforts. By Allah the most knowledgeable people of this Ummah, the companions of the Blessed Prophet used to refer the questioner to each other trying hard to close any hole which Shay'taan may use as a means to destroy them. The blessed Prophet (Sallalaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) did not leave us without warning this Ummah of every thing that may lead to their destruction and every thing that may lead to their victory in this world and the hereafter. He the Messenger of Allah (Sallalaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: "Indeed Allah does not take away knowledge by removing it from the chest of the people but rather he takes away knowledge by the death of the 'Ulemaa until there remains no 'Ulemaa then the people will take as their leaders the ignorant ones, they will refer their questions to them and the ignorant leaders will give verdicts without knowledge misguiding themselves and them" (al-Bukhaaree and Muslim). Al-hamdulillah we are not living in the time the Prophet (Sallalaahu 'alayhi wa sallam) was talking about in the above hadeeth, and we have 'Ulemaa among us to refer our questions to and they are just a phone call away. Everyone answering questions on something he or she may have heard the verdict on from a scholar or the worst of all from himself is an attack on the scholars and a show of ingratitude to the bounty of Allah (Jala wa 'alaa) for putting us in a time where there are 'Ulemaa to refer our affairs to. Allah the all Merciful said: "Ask the people of knowledge if you do not know". A person may ask a question that appears to be similar to a question answered by a scholar, and the person responding to the question will issue the same verdict posed to him/her not realizing that the verdict maybe on a case by case basis. In deed truthful is the one who said, "Whosoever enters a house in a way other than the door will be forced out". Allah (Subhaanah wa ta'aalaa) said, "And enter houses from their doors"(2:189). " |
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And we are in total agreement with this, and it is the truth.
And indeed, this is what distinguishes us as Salafis from all of the Hizbiyyoon and the Innovators, who have no fear of Allaah and merely speak with no knowledge, or guidance or light or understanding. This is because we venerate the Scholars of Ahl us-Sunnah and know that the blessings lie with them.
This is a short reminder for now, and in the meanwhile we will be putting down some guidelines and advice concerning posting on SalafiTalk.Net, which if abided by, will help to reduce what we see as an undesirable characteristic.
Thus, we ask for your co-operation in putting a stop to what can become a doorway for Shaytaan. May Allaah reward you.
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SalafiTalk.Net Admin
This message was edited by Admin on 7-26-03 @ 8:11 PM
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| aboo.bilal
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Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Sep 2002
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al-Hamdu-Lillaahi Rabbil-'Aalameen was-Salaatu was-Salaamu 'alaa Ashrafil-Anbiyaa'e wal-Mursaleen, wa ba'd:
With regards to the original question the answer is contained in the following fatwa that can be found at www.fatwa-online.com
The following question was asked toThe Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa
A man died and his wife was elderly, over seventy years old, with little ability to think and no servant. He died while she was still married to him. Does she have to go through the mourning period like others? What is the wisdom behind such an act if someone is old like her? Why then is it that the pregnant woman mourns only until she gives birth, implying that the mourning period is just to make certain that the woman is or is not pregnant? In a case like this woman, that possibility is not present.
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| aboo.bilal
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Member
Posts: 128
Joined: Sep 2002
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al-Hamdu-Lillaahi Rabbil-'Aalameen was-Salaatu was-Salaamu 'alaa Ashrafil-Anbiyaa'e wal-Mursaleen, wa ba'd:
Assalam-o-Alayqum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakatahu
With regards to the question about the sister who is pregnant and her period of waiting the answer can be found in the following fatawa barakhAllaahu feekum:
What is the mourning period of the pregnant widow?
And for a further clarification the answer can be found in the second paragraph of the response in the following fatwa:
[url=http://www.fatwa-online.com/fataawa/womensissues/waitingperiod/9991018_123.htm]Does the elderly woman mourn and what is the ruling concerning that?[/url]
Wa salaam-o-Alayqum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakhatahu
Aboo Bilal Nahim
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| abu.naasir
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Firstly: I would like to say Jazaakumullaahu khiaran,to the Admin in general since they usually go unmentioned, but specifically for their swift response to this thread since the ayah above was misused, as I hope the following translations will show.
And with regard to point (a) raised by Admin, may Allaah preserve them,
a) Not speaking about Allaah and His Deen without knowledge
Then in general, and not as an attack against any certain individual, I would like to mention that I have heard our Shaikh the Rabee us-Sunnah (may Allaah preserve him) mention on a tape entitled al-Istiqaamah, when he spoke about those things which nullify al-Istiqaamah the saying of Allaah, the Most High,
?Say, But the things my Lord has forbidden are ?Fawaahishah (evil sins), whether committed openly or secretly, sins of all kinds and oppression without right and joining partners with Allaah for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allaah of which you have no knowledge.? (al-Araaf 33)
And the Shaikh explains each of these categories and how Imaam Ibn ul-Qayyim has mentioned that Allaah has listed them in order of their severity. Then Shaikh Rabee explains each of them and mentions how shirk is the greatest sin, and greater than shirk is speaking about Allaah without knowledge, which includes shirk and is the foundation of it. So this ayah contains a great warning from speaking about Allaah without knowledge, a crime which is more severe than shirk.
May Allaah protect us from falling into this great crime!
To proceed:
Shaikh Saaleh al-Fawzaan, may Allaah preserve him, says in his book ?Tanbihaat ?alaa ahkaam takhtassu bil-mu?minaat?, pg.111:
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The Iddah is of four types
The first type: The ?iddah of a pregnant woman
This always ends with delivery of the child, whether the divorce was final or reversible, and whether the separation results from a living (husband) or a dead one.
Allaah, the Most High, says,
?And for those who are pregnant, their prescribed period is until they lay down their burden (i.e. deliver the baby).? (at-Talaaq: 4)
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The Shaikh then mentions quoting the appropriate references,
The second type (The iddah of a woman who menstruates - 3 menstrual cycles),
And the third type (the iddah of the women who do not menstruate- the girl who does not menstruate and the old woman who has stopped menstruation- 3 months).
The Shaikh (may Allaah preserve Him) then says,
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The fourth type: The woman whose husband has died.
He , the Most High, clarified her iddah by His saying,
?And those of you who die and leave wives behind them, they (the wives) shall wait (with regard to their marriage, after the death of the husband) for four months and ten days. (al-Baqarah: 234)
So this includes the woman who has been entered (intercourse) by her husband, the woman who has not, the girl who does not menstruate and the old woman who has stopped menstruating, but excludes the pregnant woman due to His, the Most High, saying,
?And for those who are pregnant, their prescribed period is until they lay down their burden (i.e. deliver the baby).? (at-Talaaq: 4)
Taken from ?al-Hadee an-Nabawee? [594/595] of Ibn ul-Qayyim, authenticated edition.
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The Imaam Allaamah as-Shaikh Abdur Rahmaan bin Naasir as-Sadee says in his book ?Manhaj us Saalikeen wat-Tawdeeh al-fiqhi fid-Deen? (pub. Dar ul Watan, pp. 281) on page 217:
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Point 582- So separation by death occurs when the husband dies, she has an ?iddah in all circumstances:
a) If she is pregnant then her ?iddah is until she delivers all that is in her womb, due to His, the Most High, saying,
?And for those who are pregnant, their prescribed period is until they lay down their burden (i.e. deliver the baby).? (at-Talaaq: 4)
And this is general whether the separation results from a dead (husband) or a living one.
b) And if she is not pregnant then her iddah is four months and ten days. [Abul Irbaad: Based on al-Baqarah 234]
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The Shaikh then discusses some of the things that she must not do during her iddah e.g. not beautify or perfume herself and confine herself to the house where her husband died and not to leave it except for a need and during the day.
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Point 584- As for the separation which occurs when the husband is alive:
a) If he divorces her before entering her then there is no iddah for her, due to the saying of the Most High, ?O you who believe! When you marry believing women and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no iddah have you to count in respect of them? (al-Ahzaab: 49)
b) And if he has entered her (had sexual intercourse):
i) Then if she is pregnant, her iddah lasts until she delivers the baby, whether it is a short or long period of time.
ii) If she is not pregnant:
-Then if she menstruates then her iddah is three menstrual cycles, due to His, the Most High saying, ?And divorced women shall wait for three menstrual periods.? (al-Baqarah 228)
-And if she does not menstruate, such as an immature girl and a woman who does not menstruate and the one who has stopped, then her iddah is three months, due to his saying, ?And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the iddah, if you have doubt, is three months, and for those who have no courses.? (at-Talaaq: 4)
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Based on notes from the classes we had on Manhaj us-Saalikeen, Shaikh Muhammad al-Fayfee said,
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?If a pregnant woman?s husband dies at say 5pm and she delivers at 5.05pm then she can accept a proposal at 5.15pm [Abul Irbaad: or any other time after 5.05pm for that matter] . This is because the iddah of pregnancy has more preference over any other iddah, and the iddah of the pregnant woman is when she delivers.?
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The Shaikh then asked a question, ?If a woman has twins does her iddah end (and thus she can accept a marriage proposal) upon the delivery of first child or upon delivery of both??
And this is sometimes the case when the two babies (or more) can be separated by a day. And in following the example of our brother Abul Abbaas Mosaa yahfadhahullah, we will leave the answer for anyone who knows!
And Allaah knows best!
Abul Irbaad
Abid Zargar
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| Abu.Abdullah.A
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Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Jazaakallaahu khayran Abu Nasir.
The answer to this question is also explained by Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen in his book Difference of Opinion Amongst Scholars (Eng. Trans. p.18-20), where he illustrates that both Alee and Ibn Abbaas (radiyallaahu anhumaa) held the view that the pregnant woman whose husband dies should take the longer of the two waiting periods. So if the husband dies 2 weeks before delivery, the waiting period is four months and ten days from the time he dies (extending past the delivery). And if the husband dies 6 months before delivery, her waiting period is until she delivers. The reason they held this view is that they combined the two verses together (65:4) and (2:234), because the first relates to pregant women, and the second relates to widowed women.
However, in the Sunnah, the Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) permitted Subay'ah al-Aslamiyyah to get married after she gave birth following the death of her husband by only a few nights.
So this means that the actual verse which contains the ruling on this issue is the one in Surah Talaaq (65:4).
"And for those who are pregnant, their prescribed period is until they lay down their burden (i.e. deliver the baby)" (at-Talaaq: 4)
Shaykh al-Uthaymeen says that if these companions had known of this Sunnah they would have adhered to it in their opinion.
This message was edited by Abu.Abdullah.A on 7-27-03 @ 4:49 PM
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| Abu.Hafs.Bilaal
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Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Apr 2003
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wa alaikum as salaam
Jazakallahu khairan to all those who responded from knowledge and the Admin. I am very clear about this issue now, thanks to the provision of the daleel, and I hope and pray that all the readers understand the beauty of knowledge and the statements of the ulema and their students. May Allah reward you all from good.
wa salaamu alaikum
abu hafs bilaal as salafi
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23-07-2003 @ 4:04 PM
23-07-2003 @ 5:47 PM