Topic: FREE FROM THIS FOOL !!!!!!!!!

ekbal.hussain    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Assalamu alaykum

Ikhwaan unfortunately I am joined to the Email list of ...  Guess who?  Abdul Qaadir al-Lutonee!  The AFFAAK, the DAJJAL, the SAFEEH, the KADHDHAB, the majnoon of al-ma'ribee wa al-mubtadi.  Wa allahu mustahan!

I mistakenly joined this IDIOTS Email list, at his website before the issue of Abul Hasan al-Mubtadi, came into the open, and before this despicable FOOL dropped his pants in public, causing his reality to became apparent and for all the world to see. (How the FOOL hates to be mentioned in such a manner, "dropping his pants in public").

I stumbled into his website, whilst surfing the net and I was actually delighted, thinking that I had come across a salafi website, I also (at that time), thought he was a clear salafi. I straight away joined his Email list and hoped that I would recieve beneficial Salafi literature.  Instead I started to recieve articles attacking and defaming the salafiyoon, particularly Salafipublications and Abu Khadijah (hafidha ullah), and the FOOL'S  vain attempts to spread the Baatil replies of Abul Fitan, against the Shuyookh who criticised him.  At the same time I checked out, to find out if there were any replies to this.  Alhamdu lillah, indeed there were!  All the info concerning this Schizophrenic maniac came out into the open.  It was only then I realised who he really was.

I have tried many times to unsubcribe from this FOOL'S Email List, but to no avail!  This clever RAT and his cronies have delibrately prevented anyone from unsubscribing from their Email list, unlike all other Email Lists, who give the option to unsubscribe, this Crazy lunatic's website doesn't give you that option!  It's like a fly, which has been caught in the sticky web of a spider; once this FOOL catches you in his web of lies and deceit, he won't let go!  Allahu musta'an!

I sent an email to this mad FOOL, asking him to remove me from his Email list, but no success and no answer.  He continued sending me his Baatil shuboohaat and continues to this day!

And by the way Abdul Qaadir! You FOOL!  If you happen to be reading this lovely post, I demand that you remove me from your Email list, my Email address is:

Just to state my request, because I don't want to go any longer and end up writiing a whole book.  I want to know if any of you brothers could tell me how to unsubscribe from this IDIOT'S Email List. Your help would be much appreciated.

What a FOOL!!!

Waiting in aticipation for an answer.

Your Brother in Islaam amd the Sunnah

Ekbal as-salafi al-Bangali

AliSomaniAlKanadee    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Walaykumus-Salaamu wa rahmatullah.

Insha-Allah this will assist you:

When you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, or (at least) return it equally. Certainly, Allâh is Ever a Careful Account Taker of all things. (Translation of Surat An-Nisa, Ayah 86)

mujaahidirlande    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Post removed due to clarification!

This message was edited by mujaahidirlande on 12-21-02 @ 8:46 PM

Abu.Abdullah.A    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Jazakallahu khair Br. Ekbal!!!

Three scholars have spoken about this person abdulqadir. Two of them have charged him with innovation, being corrupt, desiring baatil, being a fool, being a dajjaal and affaak, following his desires and more than two scholars explained the obligation of warning against his likes by the Salafis in their own lands. So in relation to the manhaj of the Salaf there should be open warning and distributing the statements of the scholars on this man so no one is poisoned by him and destroyed by him. This person has been spreading great corruption through his evil email messages, and these messages are found all over the internet. abdulqadir has already been advised by shaikh rabee a long time ago, face to face. But why is mujaahidirlande trying to use the above hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) which is concerning the weakness of a man towards sins, to try and defend this man abdulqadir who is a saahibu hawaa and claim that we should not help the devil against him. Does he not know that the devil is actually with Abdulqadir already? Innovation is more beloved to Iblees than sin! Some of the Salaf used to prefer that their sons come out of brothels than to mix with the Innovators!

The use of this hadeeth here shows the great ignorance of this person of the salafi minhaj and he speaks without knowledge. Either this or he is following hawa himself. who does he think he is when two of the  major scholars have asked that abdulqadir openly  be refuted and warned against? I hope others can refute this shameless display of tamyee'. Its like this person wants everyone to help the devil even more against this man abdulqadir, by asking everyone to turn to tamyee' and turn blind eye to the evil of this dajjal, and not promote the sayings of the major scholars about him.  Everyone should spread the words of these scholars, in every place, by email, on Internet web pages, by snail mail, post, by text message, by pigeon courier, by messages in glass bottles that are flung into the ocean, by drums (using the duff only), sign language, morse code and whatever other means they can use. Just like this dajjal spreads his innovation everywhere, the Salafis should refute this dajjal everywhere and in every way. And we should not give any attention to the people of tamyee'.

Kalimatul.Haqq    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Assalaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakaatahu

1/ It was mentioned that this MujaahidIrlandi studied at the Ikhwaani University in Yemen of Zindani, so that could be the reason for his ignorance of the Manhaj of the salaf.

2/ He always comes with the doubts of the people of Tamy'ee claiming that he is ignorant.

3/ I advise the Admin that they monitor his posts and it seems that this is already taking place may Allaah reward them.


HassanAs-Somali    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM

'Do not say so, for you are helping Satan to overpower him.'

Abu Huraira said, "A man who drank wine was brought to the Prophet. The Prophet said, 'Beat him!" Abu Huraira added, "So some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments, and then when we finished, someone said to him, 'May Allah disgrace you!' On that the Prophet said, 'Do not say so, for you are helping Satan to overpower him.' "6777 Book of punishments.

Ibn Hajr said (Fathul Baari 12:78):
?Them helping the Shaytaan is from the perspective that the Devil seeks to beautify to him this disobedience (Ma?siyyah) so that humiliation will come to him, so if they supplicated (To Allaah) that he be humiliated it is as if they are fulfilling the intent of the Shaytaan??..
So it can be benefited from this (Hadeeth) the prohibition of supplicating upon the sinner that he be removed from the mercy of Allaah like the (issue) of (invoking) the curse.?

To use this Hadeeth as a defense for those people who spread falsehood shows lack of understanding of the Manhaj of the Salaf. We should be careful when using texts and applying them in their rightful places

وقال شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية:
لا عيب على من أظهر مذهب السلف وانتسب إليه واعتزى إليه بل يجب قبول ذلك منه بالاتفاق فإن مذهب السلف لا يكون إلا حقا
مجموع الفتاوى 4/ 149

This message was edited by HassanAs-Somali on 12-21-02 @ 7:54 PM

abu.junood    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  I remember vaguely a post by this same brother, I am sure it was him trying to use the statement of Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbad to question the status of Shaykh Falih al-Harbee and when some other brother brought the sayings of all the scholars he went back and edited his post. Something like that happened on this forum. This statement of Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin is also being used in the same way by this Abdul-Qadir from Luton so the above post from this brother if it is the same one is not surprising. Also he is completely wrong to use this hadeeth about the sinner.    -- 21-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Assalaamu Alaykum

Just a brief comment on a little phrase used earlier by Ekbal, which was taken from the SP forum "with his pants down in public", which as Ekbal rightly said, was a little hard to stomach for Abdul-Qadir.

Originally, this was taken from some poetry quoted by Muwaffaq ad-Deen Ibn Qudaamah al-Maqdisee (rahimahullaah) in his excellent book "Tahreem an-Nadhar Fee Kutub Ahl il-Kalaam", also known as "Kitaab Feehir-Radd Alaa Ibn 'Aqeel", which is a severe refutation of Ibn 'Aqeel and was written many years after Ibn 'Aqeel made a public, written, signed tawbah (well, about 150 years later!). But Ibn Qudaamah still wrote this book 150 years after the retraction. This shows that it is permissible to refute a person's mistakes, even after he made tawbah, if the situation requires it because the intention is to reduce the effect of his mistakes that might have already been spread amongst a large number of people.

Anyhow, in this book he quotes some poetry, addressing it to Ibn 'Aqeel which is translated as follows:

O you who admonish people, you yourself have become accused
Since you blame them for things you yourself perpetrate
Like him who is clothed to cover his nudity, while his pudendum (private part)
Remains visible to the people, and he does not cover it.

Ibn Qudaamah just before this point was indicating the contradiction in the behaviour and claims of Ibn Aqeel, when the latter claimed to be following the Salaf and was giving advice to others to follow the Salaf (thinking that the innovations he was upon were what the Salaf were upon in their aqeedah). Ibn Qudaamah says words to the effect that we are the ones who are upon the way of the Salaf, and we are the oens who have acted upon this advice, without even needing it from Ibn Aqeel, and that Ibn Aqeel says what he does not. After this he quotes this poetry indicating that Ibn Aqeel came out in public with his "pants down" so to speak.

And likewise this Abdul-Qadir, he came out claiming to be "following the evidences" and "making tathabbut (verification)" and he was warning everybody else from "making taqleed of the scholars", when in fact, he was the one opposing his very own advice, not following any evidences, and making taqleed of statements which had no proof in the knowledge based issues that were under dispute for which al-Ma'ribee had been refuted and exposed, and was using them to confuse and deceive people. And in all of this he was a pure Muqallid.

Hence, he came out with his "pants down in public" so to speak, and in reality he remains in this state till today.

So this was the basis of the comment that was made, and it had this background to it and it wasn't just made willy-nilly, for no meaningful reason, but it was made with the example of Ibn Aqeel and Ibn Qudaamah in mind.

Well here is the original statement: (12-Sep-2002 @ 10:31 PM) which indicates the contradiction of Abdul-Qadir between his sayings and his actions and in the implementation of his principles.

Fifthly: Picture the situation, O possessor of intelligence. This liar finds fault with the Salafees because they adhere to what is found with Shaykh Rabee' and others of evidences, quotations from books, by page numbers, and verbatim quotes from cassettes, and then illustrating what they contain of either error, aspects of innovation, ambiguities, mistakes, and then what is with the other scholars in addition to this of first hand knowledge and first hand reports, such as the Shaykhs of Yemen, whose adaalah is established, and then what is found with the Shaykhs of Madinah who have additional further knowledge, and who support the refutations of Shaykh Rabee' and Shaykh Faalih and the Shaykhs of Yemen - and so this Lutonian Liar wages a war against all of this, and fights against the principle "the narrations of the trustworthy are accepted", and claims this is blameworthy taqleed, and labels those who adhere to all of this as "Juhhaal Extremists" and "Muqallidah", then he comes, with his pants down in public, and brings a statement from some unknown entity called "Hammaadee" who is not from the people of knowledge but from the Muta'assiboon of the Mubtadi' of Ma'rib, and this statement is full of claims with no quotes, no verifiable references, and it contains judgements upon others - and so this Lutonian Liar calls all of this "expositions of the true state of affairs" and the "other side of the story", and then believes it, has conviction in it, puts his faith in it, translates it and propagates it and then fights the people of the Sunnah with it. Allaahu Akbar!


This message was edited by on 12-22-02 @ 12:25 AM

ekbal.hussain    -- 23-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Walaykumu salamu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Jazzak allahu khair Akh AliSomani, for your assistance.

I don't know what Brother Mujahid Irlande, has said against me, for reviling the FOOL of luton, but to be frank I don't care!

I reiterate again, that Abdul Qadir, the DONKEY of al-ma'ribee is a FOOL!  Who has no better occupation except to be the riding animal of the EVIL Mubtadi of Ma'rib!  This EVIL MANIAC (Abdul Qadir Ad-Dajjal), from the beginning of this fitnah, has gone out of  his way to delibrately cause confusion in the ranks of the salafis.  As the Brother Abu Abdullah, has rightly pointed out, this IDIOT has been spreading emails out everywhere to cause corruption on the Earth; and my predicament is a testimony to that!

I sincerely believe, that ANYONE, who supports and aggrandizes, the EVIL and SICK Mubtadi of Ma'rib, whose situation is crystal clear, after hearing the words of 21 (perhaps more) Scholars exposing him; deserves to be debased and humiliated until he realises his manifest error and comes back to the Haqq.
I have no problems whatsoever reviling and cursing the poisonous viper of Luton!

As our Noble Assalafus salih, have shown in their examples,

Zaa'idah bin Qudaamah said:

"I said to Mansoor bin al-Mu'tamir: "When I am fasting can I revile the Ruler?  He said: "No."  I then  said: "Then can I revile the People of desires (I.e innovators)?  He said:  "YES".
al-Hilyah(5/41-42) of Abu Nu'aym and as-Samt wa Aadaab il-Lisaan(p.145) of Ibn Abee Dunyaa

Al Hasan al-Basree said:  

" there are three- in the backbiting of whom there is no inviolability- one of them being a person of innovation, propogating it...."
Sharh Usool ul-I'Itiqaad(no.278)

I would advice Brother Mujahid and those like him, to go and read the articles: 'The Crime of Tamyee' upon the Salafee Manhaj'.  Authored by the Noble destroyers of innovation, Ash Shaikh Rabee ibn Hadee al-Madkhalee and Ash-Shaikh Ubayd al-Jabiree (Hafidha umullah) and translated by our noble brothers at salafipublications; may Allah keep them and the brothers in the Admin of this Noble Forum firm upon adherence to the Salafi manhaj.

I personally believe, that this CRAZY individual, al-Lutonee, should be BEATEN like a Donkey (that HE is), until he yields and recants from his despicable position.  If Brothers like Mujahid Irlande,find my words on al-Lutonee, THE FOOL, as being too harsh, then I would liewise advise them to go and read about the treatment of ahlul Bid'ah, by the Noble righteous salaf, Abu Ja'far bin 'Awnillah, also found at, indeed his story is a mighty example!

The Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), said:

"Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of mankind."
Reported by Bukhaaree (12/41) and Muslim (9/140)

Ibraaheem bin Maysarah (d.132H) said:

"Whoever honours an innovator has aided in the destruction of Islam."
Reported by al-Laalikaa'ee (1/139).

Al-Fudayl bin 'Iyaad said:

"If a man comes to a person to consult him and he directs him to an innovator, then he has made a deception of Islaam. Beware of going to a person of innovation for they divert [people] from the truth." Sharh Usool ul-I'tiqaad of al-Laalikaa'ee (no.261)

(all quotes taken from

My beloved ikhwaan, upon the Sunnah, these words should be written in Gold!

Finally, I would like to remind Brother Mujahid Irlande, of the words of the Shaikh, the Allamah, the elder, the subduer of innovation and it's people, Ahmad bin yahya an-Najmee (hafidha ullah), concerning this FOOL of Luton:

"...maybe this man (Abdul Qaadir al-Lutonee) is an innovator like him (Abul Fitan al-mubtadi) OR GREATER THAN HIM...."

Anyone who reads the Lutonian FOOL'S evil shuboohat, which he is posting everywhere, cannot help but agree with the Noble Shakh (hafidha ullah)!

Once again I say Abdul Qaadir al-Lutonee is a:


May Allah keep us firm upon the adherence to the way of the Salaf and far away from the destructive hawa of the Khalaf.  AMEEN!

Barrak allahu feekum

Ekbal as-salafi al-atharee al-Bangali

Moosaa    -- 23-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  ما شاء الله، ما شاء الله

I just wanted to address a question that someone might ask:  Isn't all this kalaam a bit much?

The response:

Loving ahlus-Sunnah is from the Deen, just as hating Ahlul-Bid'ah is from the Deen.  As a result of this love and hatred:

Someone who loves Ahlus-Sunnah will mention them with words of honor and reverence.

Someone who hates Ahlul-Bid'ah will mention them with words of enmity and disgust.

And this was the way of our righteous predecessors

Al-Awzaa'ee (d.157) said:

فكونوا لهم حذرين متهمين رافضين مجانبين، فإن علماءكم الأولين ومن صلح من المتأخرين كذلك كانوا يفعلون ويأمرون

"Be people who warn against them (the people of bid'ah), insult them, reject them, and stay away from them; for verily your early scholars and the righteous later ones did just like that, and they used to order the people to be like that."

That's Al-Imaam Al-Awzaa'ee from the second century telling us about the way of the early scholars of the Companions and the Taabi'oon!

Al-Imaam Ibn Battah (d.387) said:

ومن السنة مجانبة كل من اعتقد شيئا مما ذكرناه، وهجرانه، والمقت له, وهجران من والاه، ونصره، وذب عنه، وصاحبه، وإن كان الفاعل لذلك يظهر السنة

"And it is from the Sunnah to stay away from anyone who believes in anything like what we have mentioned (innovations), and to boycott him, abhor him, boycott his allies and whoever aids him, defends, or befriends him, even if he is apparantly upon the Sunnah."

As-Sam'aanee (d.489) said:

واعلم أنك متى تدبرت سيرة الصحابة ومن بعدهم من السلف الصالح، وجدتهم ينهون عن جدال أهل البدع بأبلغ النهي، ولا يرون رد كلامهم بدلائل العقل.  وإنما كانوا إذا سمعوا بواحد من أهل البدعة، أظهروا التبري منه ونهوا الناس عن مجالسته ومحاورته والكلام معه وربما نهوا عن النظر إليه

"Know that when you ponder over the legacy of the Comapanions and those who came later, As-Salaf As-Saalih, you find them prohibiting the people from debating the people of innovations with the most extreme prohibition.  And they did not see the permissibility of responding to their words with intellectual proofs, rather when they heard about a person from the people of innovation, their animosity for him could be seen clearly, they would prohibit the people from sitting with them, debating with them, talking with them, and perhaps even looking at them."

So I say, dear brothers and sisters, that one of the main reasons that we have all this confusion about our Deen is that we have this idea that we should listen to people of bid'ah "for the sake of fairness" or "to hear both sides of the story."  Then after we have given them our ear, it is too late, the poison is already in our bloodstream.  This is manifested when their names are mentioned, you find us squirming, trying to change the subject, sometimes even defending them or justifying their mistakes and innovations!  All of this because we have abandoned the manhaj of our Salaf and invented our own manhaj in dealing with the people of innovation!

I ask Allaah to make me and all of you firm in the manhaj of the Salaf, to make us love them in truth and follow their way, in both the easy affairs and the difficult ones, and may He give us their companionship in the Firdows...

إن ربنا لسميع الدعاء

[the three quotes above were taken from the excellent book, Ijmaa' Al-'Ulamaa' 'alal-Hajari wat-Tahtheer min Ahlil-Ahwaa' by the good brother, Aboo 'Abdillaah Khaalid Ath-Thufayree, may Allaah reward him with good]

سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

iamsalafee    -- 23-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Taken from

Abu Uthmaan as-Saaboonee (d. 449H) - may Allaah have mercy upon him - said: "And along with that they [the Salaf who have passed before him] unanimously agreed with their saying about the Ahl ul-Bid'ah, that they should be subdued, humiliated and disgraced, banished and driven away. That [one must] keep away from them, from those who associate with them and from those who are intimate with them. And to seek nearness to Allaah by avoiding them and fleeing from them."

He also said: "...That they should not occupy themselves with these newly-invented matters from among the innovations, which have become widespread amongst the Muslims [and likewise, the detestable things which] have appeared and become popular [amongst the people]. And if a single one of these matters appeared upon the tongue of anyone in the time of those Scholars, then they would have forsaken him, would have declared him an innovator, called him a liar and would have attributed to him, every evil and loathsome thing.

Let not my Brothers - may Allaah protect them - be deceived by the abundance of the Ahl ul-Bid'ah (the People of Innovation) and their large numbers [for verily, the abundance of the people of falsehood and the small number of the people of Truth is a sign of the approach of the Day of Truth], since the Chosen Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Indeed, amongst the signs of the Hour and its being close at hand, is that knowledge will diminish and ignorance will be widespread."

And knowledge is the Sunnah and ignorance is Bid'ah."
End of his words - may Allaah have mercy upon him.

Abul.HasanMalik    -- 23-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  With regards to the treatment of the people of desires one need only look at what Ameerul-Mu?mineen Umar Al-Faaruq رضي الله عنه   did with Sabeegh ibn Asl Al-Handhali from what is collected by Ad-Daarimi in his Sunan and other than him:

That Sabeegh Al-Iraqi began to ask about things in the Quran amongst the Muslims, so word of this reached Umar ibn Al-Khattaab. So when he came to Umar he said: ?You are asking about things not known before. So he sent for some palm branches and beat him until he bled, then he left him until he recovered then beat him again, then left him again until he recovered then beat him again, then when he went to beat him again Sabeegh said: ?O leader of the believers if you want to kill me then do so quickly, but if you want to correct me then I swear by Allah that I free from that which was with me.? So Umar allowed him to return to his land and wrote to Abu Musa Al-Ash?ari that no one from the Muslims should sit with him.?

And in the narration collected by Ibn Battah in Al-Ibaanah from Abu Uthman who said:

?Umar wrote to us not to sit with him, and if we were a hundred in a gathering and he sat with us we would all stand and disperse from him.?

Sheikh Ibraheem Ar-Ruhaili mentions in "موقف أهل السنة و الجماعة من أهل الأهواء و البدع" ?The Position of the people of the Sunnah and Jama?ah with the people of desires and innovation? (2/535) in the footnote of this narration:

?Umar beat him because these questions of his were on the متشابهات (unclear verses) of the Qur?an.?

This is merely one example of the treatment of the Salaf for those who invented in the religion. There has come to us by way of authentic narrations that some were beaten, some imprisoned as has come on Imam Malik who said:

?The Quran is the speech of Allah and whoever says that it is created should be beaten and imprisioned for life.? [Collected by Al-Ajuree in Ash-Shareeah pg. 79]

And also on Imam Ahamd. Abdullah ibn Ahmad said:

?I asked my father about a man who innovated in the religion and called to it do you think he should be imprisioned?? He said: ?Yes, I think he should be imprisioned to protect the Muslims from his innovation.? [Masaail Al-Imam Ahmad pg. 439]

Some were banished from their lands, some had their homes demolished, and other than that from the punishments that were ascribed the people of innovation and callers to newly invented affairs. And this treatment was also known to those who supported them also. Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said in his refutation upon the Ittihaadiyyah:

?Punishment is obligatory for anyone who acsribes to them, defends them, praises them, magnifies them or their books, or is known to aid them, or dislikes speech against them, or begins to make excuses for them that he doesn?t know what this speech is or who says: he has compiled this book?  And the likes of these excuses of which no one utters them except an ignoramous or a hypocrite, rather the punishment is obligatory for everyone who knows their condition and does not aid in standing against them, for indeed standing against these ones is from the greatest of obligations, because they have corrupted the beliefs and they spread corruption in the earth, and divert from the Way of Allah.? [Al-Fataawah 2/132]

So this is the way of the Salaf in the treatment of the people of innovation and desires, those who defend them, and even those who know their condition and do not stand against them! But now comes the watered- down, sugar- coated methodology of Tamyee?calling to a soft treatment of the people of hizbiyyah and desires that was not known amongst the Salaf, and like the methodology of muwaazanaat, and other than it from corrupt principles that are newly invented, then they must be redpudiated with with pen and tongue, fire and steel to safeguard the beliefs of the masses of the Muslims and to uphold the principles layed down in the Kitab and the Sunnah and by the people of narrations.

أهل الحديث هم أهل النبي وإن
لم يصحبوا نفسه أنفاسه صحبوا

This message was edited by Abul.HasanMalik on 12-24-02 @ 3:03 AM

Moosaa    -- 24-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM

When do we say that a common person is not a Salafee?

ANSWER by Shaykh Rabee' ibn Haadee Al-Madkhalee, well-known scholar and retired professor from the Islaamic University of Al-Madeenah

The common person, like the average raafidhee, or the average soofee, or their likes from the people of partisanship, if he affirms their ideas and he follows them, befriending people for their sake, and opposing the Salafees for example, then he is from them.

But if he is not active (doing the aforementioned), and he is a person who accepts the Truth, then he is to be advised and taught the Salafee manhaj. There should be no rush in judging him. But if he is active with them and accepts their ideas as I have mentioned, then he is from them.

Other than this, the ordinary person who does not understand what they are on, the one who holds no animosity or stance against the Salafee methodology, such a person should be dealt with patiently, taught, and advised. There should be no rush in judging him.


This was translated exclusively for from a cassette recording with the knowledge and permission of the shaykh, file no. AARM001, dated 1423/7/23.

سبحانك اللهم وبحمدك
أشهد أن لا إله إلا أنت
أستغفرك وأتوب إليك

aboo.shaahir    -- 24-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Assalaamu alaikum,

Muhammad.Islam could you please be more specific with your post because it seems mujmal jiddan! Some of your statements in need of clarification are;

1) "yet ive yet to see the callers in the west bring forth the words of the ulama in regarding the juhaal .those who might be in the web of the callers of dallallah ..
due to being misinformed or not aware of issues it would be beneficial for one to transcribe imaam al-albanis tape min huwa kafir and who is the innovator
explaining in detail how to deal with those who just dont know before they are labeled and written off as being innovators and dealt with by the narrations in this thread which is commonly done by those still young in there quest for ilm..."

2)"and also for the students to hold there tounges until the ulama speak and then criticize with there criticism "

The latter statement I feel needs the most clarification. For example if someone unknown to the ulamaa is preaching the kalaam of Sayyid Qutb and is inciting the people to revolt against the muslim ruler, do we need to wait until the ulamaa speaks on this before we do? If this is the case wouldn't this go against what Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said about commanding the good and forbidding the evil;

"This is obligatory upon every capable Muslim, is fard kifaayah, and becomes fard 'ayn (individual obligation) for the capable person if no one else did it." (Majmoo ul-Fataawaa vol.28 p.126)

I eagerly await your clarification, barakallaahu feek!
Lastly, please provide for us the reference to that quote you used with the arabic text (i.e. number or page), jazakallaahu khayran.

Aboo Shaahir as-Salafee

This message was edited by aboo.shaahir on 12-27-02 @ 3:36 PM

aboo.shaahir    -- 27-12-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Assalaamu alaikum,

let's get something straight here akhee Muhammad Islam. Your original post was removed, obviously because the admins, as well as myself and other brothers on this forum saw a problem with it. From what I saw your original post calls to tamyee! It's amazing that you had almost written a book to refute my points (in reality I only made one) but yet you still haven't answered anything that I had asked!

Firstly, I had asked you to clarify your statement:

""yet ive yet to see the callers in the west bring forth the words of the ulama in regarding the juhaal .those who might be in the web of the callers of dallallah ..
due to being misinformed or not aware of issues it would be beneficial for one to transcribe imaam al-albanis tape min huwa kafir and who is the innovator
explaining in detail how to deal with those who just dont know before they are labeled and written off as being innovators and dealt with by the narrations in this thread which is commonly done by those still young in there quest for ilm..."

This statement is a blanket statement, not to mention unjust! Who do you know from the callers in the west (i.e. those who are upon correct aqeedah, manhaj and trustworthy) who've EVER called an individual an innovator without ANY of the ulamaa preceeding them in doing so? Who are those who were labelled as innovators and were unjustly given this title (i.e. the adillah was not established to them)?

Secondly, I had asked you to clarify your second statement:

"and also for the students to hold there tounges until the ulama speak and then criticize with there criticism "

My point you claim to have refuted was this:

"if someone unknown to the ulamaa is preaching the kalaam of Sayyid Qutb and is inciting the people to revolt against the muslim ruler, do we need to wait until the ulamaa speaks on this before we do? If this is the case wouldn't this go against what Shaykh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said about commanding the good and forbidding the evil;

"This is obligatory upon every capable Muslim, is fard kifaayah, and becomes fard 'ayn (individual obligation) for the capable person if no one else did it." (Majmoo ul-Fataawaa vol.28 p.126)"

Akhee Muhammad Islam, you've failed to answer my question! As Shaykh ul-Islaam (rahimahullaah) said  commanding the good and forbidding is WAAJIB on every CAPABLE muslim! So in reality if one is ABLE and knows the affairs nothing should stop him from warning against fulaan who oppose the manhaj, instead of waiting around until the ulamaa comments on fulaan. Hence, this is in no way, shape or form saying that we don't have to make his condition known to the ulamaa, rather what I'm saying is if you're CAPABLE to warn against fulaan, then you should do so.

While I was writing this a brother had informed me that you've written 1 more post where you've sounded real bitter and upset. Please akhee, drink some water and calm down, there is no need to be upset here! Let's not act as if we are above and beyond clarifying statements that we've made, insha'allaah! Now after reading the rest of what you wrote, it seems as if you're failing to realize that there is a difference between a caller to innovation and a follower of innovation. When I mentioned:

"if someone unknown to the ulamaa is preaching the kalaam of Sayyid Qutb and is inciting the people to revolt against the muslim ruler, do we need to wait until the ulamaa speaks on this before we do"

A person who preaches and incites the people to takfeer and kharooj is not a follower but a caller! Now if you were to bring this to any of the ulamaa, do you in your right mind think that they will tell you "Fulaan is ignorant, so let him continue on his misguidance and let him continue to misguide others, just speak to him in private and establish the proofs then wait and see what will happen, but don't warn publicly against him!"? If you know any, please let me know, barakallaahu feek! You also mentioned:

"how long did shaykh rabee wait for alot of those people to retract and make there position clear ??????"

Akhee the brothers of TROID, have a tape where Shaykh Rabee says that he hopes Allaah forgives him for waiting so long with Abul Fitan al-Mubtadi! He also states that the SALAF wouldn't have waited so long in dealing with a person like this! Muhammad Islam are you willing to argue with Shaykh Rabee for taking this position? If you want to hear this tape I'm sure the brothers at TROID will make this available for you, insha'allaah.

Another thing you mentioned was the discussion between Shaykh Albaani and the jihadee. If my memory serves me correct, the jihadee was still adamant in his position and it was a student of the Shaykh who told the Shaykh to let the jihadee be and not get into any debate with him. The Shaykh obliged and left the jihadee to what he was upon. Wallaahu a'lam! If this another incident please provide the reference for me barakallaahu feek.

You also mentioned that:

"how the one who is ignorant and the one like the abul fitan are not the same
like the bedoiun man ... "

Akhee please let me know who Abul Fitan al-Mubtadi studied under, why he shouldn't be considered from those who are ignorant? If you can't provide this then you've place him at a higher level of knowledge then where he should be! I pray to Allaah that this was unintentional on your part. Our brother Rasheed Barbee translated the kalaam of Shaykh Yahya al-Hajooree, where the Shaykh states:

"Verily Abu Hasan has not memorized Nawawi's Forty hadith, nor has he memorized five juz of the Quran...So he(Abu Hasan) wants to revive the principles of Salaahu As-Saawi..."

In finality, all I ask of you is to clarify what I have asked of you in my 2 posts nothing more and nothing less. If there are any more homework assignments you wish to give ya Shaykh, please feel free, barakallaahu feek!

Aboo Shaahir as-Salafee

This message was edited by aboo.shaahir on 12-27-02 @ 7:25 PM

SalafiTalk.Net :