Topic: Sheikh Muhammad AbdulWahhab al Banna regarding AbdulMun?im al Libee and the Jordanian position on Abul Hasan

abdulilah    -- 09-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Sheikh Muhammad AbdulWahhab al Banna regarding AbdulMun?im al Libee and the Jordanian position on Abul Hasan
Recorded on Sunday 6th October 2002/ 29th Rajab 1423

?I heard the discussion with this Libyan brother AbdulMun?im with Sheikh Abdulmuhsin ?Abbad. Before that he contacted me over the phone wanting from me a recorded statement clarifying that the brothers from Jordan are upon Haq and guidance or to that effect. I said by Allaah I cannot say that they are upon haq and guidance and they have now ruled that Abu Hasan is correct and that Sheikh Rabee? has erred without going back to Sheikh Rabee?. This matter, I see is opposed to the obligation (which was upon them) that is why the fitnah has increased. It was obligatory on them to return to him first and foremost. And before they put out (their statement) it was upon them to discuss the matter. Then sheikh Rabee? told me about our brothers in Jordan and if everyone told me I would not have believed them, but my certain knowledge and experience with our brother Rabee? ibn Haadee is that he has never lied. So I believed him that they (Jordanians) spoke aiding Abul Hasan. They said that Khabar Waahid does not constitute certainty (la yafeed al yaqeen) and he (sheikh Rabee?) called me and said listen (to their statement) and I said I will not be able to speak until I hear it.

So (Abdulmu?im) said listen to our brother Ali Hasan (who was there) so I said ok. So Ali Hasan spoke to me and I said to him you have erred a clear error and have further enflamed the fire. How can you all write these written statements aiding Abul Hasan and mentioning that Rabee? is the one mistaken before you returned to Sheikh Rabee. This is amazing.

The people of falsehood say statements of kufr and yet they defend each other and yet is this how we act? I am speaking now about Ali Hasan. Sheikh Rabee? said to me and by Allaah I would not have believed it if all the people told me for my experience of knowing Rabee? while even as a student and until now I have not known him ever to lie. Sheikh Rabee? said (to the Jordanians) you have differed with your own Sheikh Nasr ud-Deen al Albaani (rahimahullaah) and differed with what you used to be upon or words to that effect that Khabr ahaad which the Ummah has accepted constitutes knowledge and certainty.

He (Ali Hasan) said no we did not say this and we will come and discuss and sort it out. I said to him no, the discussion and sorting out will be with sheikh Rabee? and I will be there. He said inshaallaah we will come in Ramadan and we will sort it out. I said this is the obligation. This is what is obligatory upon you before you speak about each other. That you advise one another first and foremost.

Abdulmun?im was quiet after that as he was listening and Ali Hasan said after we will discuss it as though he didn?t want to open the door, it seemed to be that he didn?t want to show that this position of theirs was wrong to Abdulmun?im, barakallaahu ?alaikum. I, in reality, regarding the speech of Abul Hasan, was present from the beginning (since 1416). I mean Sheikh Rabee? may Allaah enlighten him to that which He loves and is pleased with never used to openly mention these (errors) and used to forbid everyone who wanted to speak regarding this matter meaning the mistakes of Abul Hasan that they remain silent (in the beginning). Then he sent him a letter in secret (advising him) and with this he (Abu Hasan) did a refutation on the internet in tapes containing criticism and slander. Then when he came to me two months ago. I said to him Oh Abu Hasan you are the one who has lit the fire of the hadadees. He said How? I said Who is the one who advised you and made you return from your statement on Usaamah ibn Zayd (radiallaahu ?anhu)? And you were persistent upon speaking against him. Are they not your brothers in Yemen? If you went to them and said jazakallaahu khairan, you are the ones who returned me many times while I was persistent, but I recognize that I am mistaken. What will the result have been? The kalimah would have been united. And who was the one to have made you return many times both in writing and in speech regarding Sayid Qutb when he mentioned the belief of Wahdatol Wajood (in his books) before his Islam and after his Islam and he brought you the statements past and present? Was it not Sheikh Rabee? ibn Haadi? Even if you hypocritically came and said sheikh Rabee? jazakallaahu khairan for having returned us many times and I agree that I was mistaken. What would have been the result? But instead you say (those who have refuted you) are the lowly despicable ones (aradil) under the feet. No person says this! This is what I said to Abul Hasan. Then he said I want to come to you to sort it out, I said no, you want to sort it out then do so with Sheikh Rabee?. Your brothers in Jordan were mistaken in that they aided you without going to Sheikh Rabee?. I wanted that those in Jordan and those in Yemen to come and come to an understanding. I do not know what will happen after this, we ask Allaah to rectify the matters??

Regarding Sheikh AbdulMuhsin?s conversation with AbdulMun?im:

?Anyhow the discussion has been spread here and there on the internet and people will look to this and that. How was sheikh Rabee? speaking regarding Abul Hasan? With proof and evidence from AbulHasan?s own speech and tapes. And the intellectual one sees this. Then the rest of the mashayak (Madinah) who called Abul Hasan to discuss with them, the first time they had good opinion of him. The second time he was persistent upon aiding those who are opposed to the methodology such Ar?ur, Maghraawee (those who brought together intellectuals who opposed the path). They (the Madinah mashayakh) openly said that this man is not upon the correct path.   So what do we do? This is the Sunnah of Allaah. The people of falsehood are persistent upon their falsehood and they push out their falsehood upon lies and deception in many cases. They do not stay away from lies. He (Abul Hasan) said to me that he went to sheikh Rabee? to pardon himself from him. So I said to him no you didn?t you went to argue with him. Then a man with Abu Hasan who looked respectable (meaning of old age) said, ?I was there.? So I said to him to Fear your Lord! I heard it with my own ears when sheikh Rabee? said come let us discuss, you (Abul Hasan) said no I will not and you spoke to him as though he was a child. Then Sheikh Rabee? said to him how old are you? Trying to show him that he is like his own father and to have manners with him. This is what happened so he (Abu Hasan) lies regarding this.?

How long have you known sheikh Rabee??

?Since 1382h/1383h until now. He was in the university studying and I was teaching. He was there and there was Abdulrahman Abdulkhaaliq, Muhammad Amman rahimahullaah (one of the beneficial scholars of Madinah), and some students from Sudan and Omar Ashqaar (Sheikh al Banna says that Omar Ashqaar followed the Ikhwaan later). We used to take them out for da?wah and we have went to Sudan many times. Abdulrahman was one of the most hard against the Ikhwaanil Muslimeen but the wealth of Turath has corrupted him just like the head of Ansaar as-Sunnah in Egypt (Safwaat Nooradin) and the Ansaar as-Sunnah in Sudan. They Ihyaa Turath did not set it up except for da?wato salafiyyah to liquidize it (blameworthy leniency). Because in Egypt there are many mosque and they collect many thousands of dollars. The callers take a share from it. For example (campaigns call for) feeding a fasting person, helping families, and the same callers take what they want and are not accountable. So barakallaahu ?alaik, we ask Allaah that He gives right to the truth and demolishes the falsehood.

And that He takes revenge over those who work to destroy the legislation of the Messenger sallallahu ?alaihi wa sallam under the name of Salafiyyah. I ask Allaah to take revenge over them and make their plots around themselves and that he does not allow what they have done to bring about harm in this life and the hereafter, for they have corrupted a lot.?

Is Sheikh Rabee? from the Kibaar al Ulamaa?

?Who is in this time similar to him? He knows the reality of most of the callers. Who is like him? He knows with proof and evidence. He doesn?t speak about anyone except with the proof. That is why I say about Rabee? Haadee is similar to Yahyah ibn Ma?een in this time. You must forgive me son I have become old I forget, now I am 90 years. Shiekh Ibn Baz rahimahullaah is the Umar ibn AbdulAziz in this era. And sheikh Nasrud Deen al Albaani rahimahullaah is the Ibn Taymiyyah of this era. and Sheikh Uthaimeen rahimahullaah  is the Shaf?ee of this era. By Allaah, the most knowledgeable of our scholars in this time ibn Uthaimeen rahimahullaah and the most generous is Sheikh AbdulAziz ibn Baz rahimahullaah, And the most knowledgeable of those differences between people and knowing the truth is Sheikh al Albaani rahimahullaah, and the most knowledgeable ones of Rijaal (men) with proof and evidence is Sheikh Rabee? Haadee May Allaah protect him. And May Allaah protect his ?intellect.

When sheikh al Albaani rahimahullaah showed the errors of Sayid Qutb and Abdullah Dawaish rahimahullaah no one moved but when Sheikh Rabee? may Allaah be pleased with him, showed the misguidance of Sayid Qutb and he clarified it from his (Sayid Qutb?s) books and his situation in the past, the world was against Rabee?. He said it with openness and evidence. So may Allaah reward him and make him firm and may Allaah keep him alive to remove those who wear the clothes of salafiyyah in order to fight it. We ask Allaah to show their state and clarify them and keep their evil away from us.?

الـعلم قـال الله قـال رسوله     قال الصحابة هم أولوا العرفان

alatharee    -- 09-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  May Allaah ta'ala bless the noble Sheikh Muhammad al-Banna for these words and we hope those who are still confused about these issues have gained clarity from his kalaam.

Indeed Sheikh Muhammad is from the old school salafee scholars and has knowledge of these affairs.  The Sheikh is 90 and was one of the first to revive the Da'wah of Tawheed and Sunnah in Egypt.  Sitting with him is indeed a history lesson.

We hope the brothers and sisters will see these matters and benefit greatly from him.  

Imaam al-Hasan al-Basree said, when he came across a group of people disputing:

?These ones have become tired of worship, speaking has become easy for them, and their piety has diminished, and that is why they talk.?

This message was edited by alatharee on 10-9-02 @ 9:10 PM

alatharee    -- 09-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  Question posed to Sheikh Fawzee al-Atharee from Sunday September 28th

Has our position changed (from us relying upon them for Ilm) regarding the Jordanians?  What is our position concerning Ali Hasan, Saleem Hilaali, and Usaamah Qoosee?

No doubt our position has changed, in reality it has greatly changed.  I shall probably speak on this later after the people of knowledge have spoken on it (in detail).

Tape entitled: The Obligation of Sticking to the Book and the Sunnah upon the Understanding of the Salafus Saalih" Daru Ahlil Athar of NC

Imaam al-Hasan al-Basree said, when he came across a group of people disputing:

?These ones have become tired of worship, speaking has become easy for them, and their piety has diminished, and that is why they talk.?

This message was edited by alatharee on 10-11-02 @ 2:18 AM

abu.iyaad    -- 09-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
..--=ahamdulillaah was. salaatu was. salaamu `alaa rasoolillaah.=--..
wa. ba`ad

Abdulilah, baarakallaahu feeka for bringing this information, as always. The Shaykh is in his nineties! May Allaah preserve him.

[1] Imaam Ibn `Uthaymeen, the Usoolee, the Faqeeh

[2] Imaam Ibn Baaz, the Zaahid, the Taqiyy, al-Imaam al-Wari`

[3] Imaam al-Albaani, the Muhaqqiq, the Baahith, the Muhaddith al-`Asr

[4] Imaam Rabee' bin Haadee, the Naasir us-Sunnah, the Qaami' ul-Bid'ah

Allaah has aided Sunnah and Salafiyyah through these Imaams. There is no Innovator or Zindeeq upon this earth except that he hates at least one of them, and he makes apparent other than what he conceals.

And Imaam Ibn `Uthaymeen explained that Imaam Rabee` should be asked about him, just as Imaam Ahmad said, Ishaaq bin Raahawaih should be asked about him, and not the other way around. And Imaam al-Albaanee said that Imaam Rabee` is the Carrier of the Flag of Jarh and Ta`deel.

Give Shaykh Muhammad al-Bannaa our salaams and an expression of great thanks for his clarifications in times of confusion.


aqeel.walker    -- 09-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  jazaakallaahu khayran akhee abdulilah. May Allaah reward you greatly for presenting this beneficial information. This is as we figured. It was pretty clear anyway what Abdul-Mun'im was up to - trying to pit the scholars against each other, cause confusion, and thus save the jam'iyyah by casting dought on Shaikh Faalih and Shaikh Rabee' among the common people.

wa ilallaahil-mushtakaa

was-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah

aqeel.walker    -- 09-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  yaa akhee abdulilah,

do you have a link with a sound bite of this discussion or is there anyway you can contact me at our masjid 404-753-5544 to arrange a way that I can get a copy of this recording. I'll be more than happy to compensate you for the shipping and all of that stuff.
Baarakallaahu feek

your brother Aqeel
was-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah

Abu_Ibraheem    -- 11-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  as salaamu alaikum, i manged to record this daroos into mp3 format from paltalk. Its quite a big file, but i can tranfer via paltalk or any other means of file transfer. the recording is translated also.
Anyone missed it, or requires the recording..let me know.

wa sallaamu alaikum

Ibn al-Qayyim said, "The jihaad with decisive proofs [from the Book and the Sunnah] and the tongue takes precedence over the jihaad with the sword and the spear." [Al-Jawaab us-Saheeh of Ibn Taymiyyah (1/237)].

Abu_Ibraheem    -- 11-10-2002 @ 12:00 AM
  As Salaamu alaikum,

i should have added this at the time, its a 59mb file, so i cant email it..sorry brothers. I can paltalk transfer, msn or irc, insha'allaah, I seriously need some tips on keeping audio quality when i encode, i currently encode to mp3, and 160kps in order to get a decent quality..but some of the files end up at 100mg + !! can anyone help me out?

Ibn al-Qayyim said, "The jihaad with decisive proofs [from the Book and the Sunnah] and the tongue takes precedence over the jihaad with the sword and the spear." [Al-Jawaab us-Saheeh of Ibn Taymiyyah (1/237)].

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