Topic: ARABIC GRAMMER TERMS?????


zaahir.abd    -- 04-18-2004 @ 7:53 PM
  AS SALAAMU 'ALAIKUM WA RAHMATULLAH...

(OOPS...."GRAMMAR TERMS")

I WANT TO KNOW IF ANYONE ON THIS FORUM, WHO HAS A STRONG GRASP OF THE ARABIC LANGUAGE, CAN LIST ARABIC TERMS(I.E. ISMUL ISHAARA ,ISMUN, FA'LUN,ETC.) AND GIVE A DESCRIPTION OF THEIR MEANINGS AND HOW THEY ARE USED? IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ME ON TOP OF THE CLASS I AM ATTENDING.
ALSO, I DIDNT GET TO ASK MY INSTRUCTOR BEFORE HE LEFT TO UMRAH,MAY ALLAH GRANT HIM GOOD AND MAKE HIS SCALES OF GOOD DEEDS HEAVY ON YAUMUL QIYAAMA, AAMEEN!

ITS ABOUT THE TERM "SARF"-WHAT DOES "SARF" MEAN?.... LIKE THE NAMES :AAMINATU, ZAYNABU , 'AISHATU,ETC
NOT GOING THRU THE COMPLETE "SARF". DO THESE FEMINE NAMES TAKE KESRA AT ANYTIME?

EX. SAYING AAMINAHS BOOK= DOES AAMINAH GET A KESRA DUE TO IT BEING MUDAF WA MUDAF ILAIHI? IF NOT OR IF SO, WHY?

BARAKALLAHU FEEKUM

AS SALAAMU 'ALAIKUM
Zaahir Al Buerto Rikee
bin A.Hernandez
Shayhk Ibn Taymiyyah (rahima-hullaah) said:
((Indeed the people of Truth and the Sunnah do not follow anyone [unconditionally] except the messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu `alaihi wa sallam)

This message was edited by zaahir.abd on 4-18-04 @ 8:20 PM


al.Arabaanee    -- 04-18-2004 @ 8:40 PM
  Wa alaikumussalamu wa rahmatullah

اسم- Ismun:

A word that has a meaning within itself and is not related to time.

فِعْلٌ-Fi'lun

A word that has a meaning within itself and IS related to time.

حَرْفٌ-Harfun

A word that has a meaning within itself and is not an Ismun or a Fi'lun.

Maybe some other bros can help with the rest.

Baarakallahu feekum




أبوعبداللّه عبدالرّحمن بن توني


abusalmaan    -- 04-18-2004 @ 11:16 PM
  بسم الله الرحمان الرحيم

Sarf if I am correct is know as Morphology. You study the different forms of words.

The feminine names do not except tanween or kasrah so when you say 'Baytu Faatima' we don't say 'Faatimati' as we normaly would but we say 'FaatimatA' with a fatha instead of a kasrah. Also with the names that are constructed like feminine names with the 'taa' on the end, but they are male names like 'baytu Hamzata' and we could go on all night...

أبو سلمان النمري طلحة بن وليم

والعصر ان الانسان لفي خسر الا الذين آمنواو عملوا الصالحات و تواصوا بالحق و تواصوا بالصبر


oummou.assia    -- 04-18-2004 @ 11:35 PM
  bissmillahi ar rahmaani ar rahim

assalam alaykoum

about as sarf: you are asking about the rule : mamnou' min as sarf i presume. In the qamoos, it is said that it means: non declinable.

as for the rule itself, i will write it, inshaALlah, so that it is clear:
"howa ismoun la yaqbalou at tanween "(it is a name who does not accept the tanween)
"yorfa'ou bi ad-dammah"( i.e: when it is marfou', it takes a dammah )
yunsabu bil fathah(when it is mansoub, it takes a fatha)
" wa yujarru bil fathah" (when it is majrour, it takes a  fatha also)

"illa idhaa kaana marfou'an bil aleef wal laam" (i.e: eccept when it is preceded by "al": aalif and laam)

"aw bil idaafah" (or when it is an idaafah).

so in your exemple you'd write: kitaabou aaminatA : it takes a fathah(does not take a kasrah), because Aamina is an ism mouthannah, feminin name, and so it is MAMNOU' MIN AS SARF.

the types of names (ism al 'alam)  who are mamnou':
1) feminin names: aaminatu, zainabu, 'a-ishatu, etc...
2) name which has a "taa marboutah": oussaamatu, hamzatu, etc...
3) name which has a alif and a noon: marwaanu, 'outhmaanu, soufiyaanu....
4) name which is a'jamee (foreign name): ibraaheemu,fir'awnu...
5) name which is  'ala wazni al fi'li: ahmadu, yazeedu,...

there are other kinds of words which are mamnou' min as sarf

hope this clears the matter.

(الحق من ربك"(آل عمران"
Oummou Assia Amina Le Joncour al-firanssiyyah as-salafiyyah.


MSbN.Ahmad    -- 04-19-2004 @ 11:37 AM
  Wa'alaykumussalaam wa rahmatullaah

I didn't quite get this line:


quote:

"illa idhaa kaana marfou'an bil aleef wal laam" (i.e: eccept when it is preceded by "al": aalif and laam)




Doesn't it mean 'except if it is marfoo' with alif and laam?'  How can something be made marfoo' with alif and laam and how does the definite article (al) make a difference to the 'iraab, doesn't it only make a difference to the 'definiteness'?  Should it be 'illaa ithaa kaana marfoo'an bil alif wan-noon?'  Then this would apply to the dual/muthanna and the exception would make sense as this dual ends with a noon with a kasrah and this is mabnee.  If I've got it all wrong please could someone explain what the exception to the word being 'preceded by alif and laam' means and what sign there should be on the last letter of the word in this case.

Also I think where the word 'muthannaa' (dual)is used in the above post, what is meant is 'mu'annath' ie  feminine.

Jazaakumullaahu khayra.



Umm Mujaahidah Ibnah Nafees Ibn Ihsaan Ahmad,
UK


s.alhashimi    -- 04-19-2004 @ 1:48 PM
  Alhamdulilah hamdan kathiran tayyiban mubarakan fee was salatu wa salam ala rasoolelah sallAllahu alyhi wa sallam. wa ba'd.

quote:

DO THESE FEMINE NAMES TAKE KESRA AT ANYTIME? EX. SAYING AAMINAHS BOOK= DOES AAMINAH GET A KESRA DUE TO IT BEING MUDAF WA MUDAF ILAIHI? IF NOT OR IF SO, WHY?

  NO.They don't get kasrah but like the ikhwatun wa ahkuwat have said get fatah. Because these words are mamnu3u minas-sarf. so it would be kitabu aaminata.  see pp. 118 madina book one.

also akhuna abu salman who posted on this topic has some detailed notes on book one and book two aswell as i'raab for those who are serious about learning arabic.
you can email or pm him . Although I am learning arabic myself it makes me very happy to see the response from the salafiyeen on al-lagwatu al-arabiyyah wa uloomuha.

Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), "May Allaah make make pleasant the man who heard a hadeeth from us and then conveyed it (to another).


This message was edited by s.alhashimi on 4-19-04 @ 2:23 PM


AbuUkkaasha    -- 04-19-2004 @ 3:05 PM
 
Bismillaahir-Rahmaanir-Raheem


As-Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullaah!

With respect to the Harf then from what I have studied that the Harf does not convey a meaning of itself except with other than itself. In Nahwul Waadih Fee Qawaa'idil-Lughatil Arabiyyah by Alee Al-Jaarim and Mustafah Ameen mentioned that: "Wal-Harfu: Kullu Laftzin Laa Yadh-haru Ma3naahu Kaamilan Illa Ma3a Ghayrihi." [pg.18] "And the Harf: meaning every expression of which its meaning is not complete in it of itself except with other than it."

From amongst the huroof are bi-laa hasr [without limiting them to this]

Min, Ilaa, Fee, Ala, An Ayyi Inna Hal and other than these.

I hope this is clear

من خالف هذا المنهج- يعني منهج السلف-و سار على منهج آخر فانه ليس منا و لسنا منه, و لا ننتسب اليه, ولا ينتسب الينا, و لا  يسمى جماعة, و انما يسمى فرقة من الفرق الضالة


oummou.assia    -- 04-19-2004 @ 3:23 PM
  assalam alaykoum wa rahmatoullah,

na'am sister, jazakillahou khairan, i meant indeed mou-annath, not mouthannah! i wrote too  fast an did not see this error (i often mix those 2 words in my head).
as for the 2 exceptions i mentionned in the rule i quoted from my daftar:
1st of all i need to explain that, there are different types of words who are mamnou' min as sarf, among them words in the plural (jam') form. There are 3 types in this category:
a)idha kaana 'ala wazni: AF'ILAA-U (exple: asdeeqaa-u, aghniyaa-u)
b) "    "     "      " : FU'ALAA-U ('ulamaa-u,fuqaraa-u,zumalaa-u)
c) idha kaana 'ala wazni min muntaha al jumoo' (mafaatihu, masaajidu,fanaadiqu)

returning to the exception:"illa idhaa kaana marfou'an bil aleef wal laam" (i.e: eccept when it is preceded by "al": aalif and laam) :my exple is with the word masaajidu (type (c)). When it is preceded by aleef+laam, then instead of finishing with a fathah, it takes a kasrah:

dhahabtu ila al masaajidi

as for the 2nd exception:"aw bil idaafah" (or when it is an idaafah), it is in this exple:
dhahabtu ila masaajidi al qariyati (masaajidi al qariyati is moudaf-moudaf ilayhi = an idaafah).

hope i explained it clearer.

p.s:* muntaha al jumoo' howa al jam' at taksseer alladhi bi ziyaadati al aleefi wa kaana ba'dahu harfaani aw thalathati (it is a "broken" plural (not saalim) which contains an aleef and two or 3 letters after it, like in the exemples mentionned in type c)).
*also, the expression: "marfou'an bil aleef wal laam": here, i assume that marfou'an must be refered to its linguistical meaning, ya'ni raised up, elevated. Here, the word has an addition which is aleef+laam, that's what means marfou'an. wa Allahou a'laam.


(الحق من ربك"(آل عمران"
Oummou Assia Amina Le Joncour al-firanssiyyah as-salafiyyah.

This message was edited by oummou.assia on 4-19-04 @ 3:56 PM


MSbN.Ahmad    -- 04-19-2004 @ 6:39 PM
  Jazaakillaahu khayran ukhti, it makes a lot more sense now.  BaarakAllaahu feek.



Umm Mujaahidah Ibnah Nafees Ibn Ihsaan Ahmad,
UK


al.Arabaanee    -- 04-19-2004 @ 7:14 PM
  As salamu alaikum

I am well aware of the fact that some of those people who are knowledgeable about the Arabic language say that a "harfun" ( حَرْفٌ) does not carry a meaning by itself and that it only carries a meaning if it is in a context i.e. connected to other words or in a sentence. However, if I was to ask: "What does "min" (مِنْ) or "ilaa" (إِلَى) mean? I'm sure that those who are familiar with their meanings could tell me. This is what I meant when I said that the "harfun" (حَرْفٌ) had a meaning within it self.

baarakallahu feekum

أبوعبداللّه عبدالرّحمن بن توني


AbuUkkaasha    -- 04-20-2004 @ 6:28 AM
  Salaamu Alaykum, I sincerely hope that this thread continues as it is a form of murajah [review] and will assist those salafees who are presently studying the lughah and a reminder for those who have studied it as well. May Allaah place an abundance of baraka on our brother in Islaam Zaahir for posing the question that he did so that we can all benefit from the answers. Ameen!

من خالف هذا المنهج- يعني منهج السلف-و سار على منهج آخر فانه ليس منا و لسنا منه, و لا ننتسب اليه, ولا ينتسب الينا, و لا  يسمى جماعة, و انما يسمى فرقة من الفرق الضالة


abusalmaan    -- 04-20-2004 @ 11:06 AM
  يسم الله الرحمان الرحيم

As a form of revision, if you want I can post regular questions and ask for examples. Questions will be in Arabic and English and must be answered the same. My knowledge of the English terms is very poor though! But I think using English really slows the taalib down and gives him weakness in his study. والله أعلم

أبو سلمان النمري طلحة بن وليم

والعصر ان الانسان لفي خسر الا الذين آمنواو عملوا الصالحات و تواصوا بالحق و تواصوا بالصبر


zaahir.abd    -- 04-20-2004 @ 7:11 PM
  as salaamu 'alaikum


AAMEEN!....BARAKALLAHU FEEKUM YAH ABU UKKAASHA...AND MAY ALLAH GRANT THE SAME TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE HELPED AND ADDED INPUT.

JAZAKALLAHU KHAIRUN, FOR ALL THE HELP.  I WILL TRY TO PARTICIPATE IN YOUR QUESTIONING ABU SALMAAN , INDEED I NEED THE REVIEW.




AS SALAAMU 'ALAIKUM
Zaahir Al Buerto Rikee
bin A.Hernandez
Shayhk Ibn Taymiyyah (rahima-hullaah) said:
((Indeed the people of Truth and the Sunnah do not follow anyone [unconditionally] except the messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu `alaihi wa sallam)


abdul.azeem    -- 08-07-2006 @ 4:52 PM
 
                             بسم الله
                             الحمد لله
                          والصلاة والسلام  
                           على رسول الله    
                             أما بعد


Assalaam'alaikum!


((حرف جاء لمعني ))

حروف معان و حروف مبان
(Harf Ma'aa'nin and Harf Mabaanin)
  
حروف المباني تدقل في تكوين الكلمات -
Letters that enter in construction of sentences.

These are of four types classed under Hurooful Hijaa'iyyathu
1. al-harakaathu
2. at-thanveenu
3. adh-dhawaabithu
4. Kithaabaathu Khaassathu


[Source Ilmu Qawaaidil Arabiyyahthi - page 7]


حروف مبان - و هي ١ . ب . ت . ف ... كذالك

حروف معان - و هي هل . عن . إلى ... كذالك

[Source: Attached Audio. p.s. I dont know who the Shaykh is explaining Ajrumiyyah. I gathered this from our brother Abdulilah Lahmaamee who can possibly name the Shaykh hafidhahullah ]



I hope this answers the confusion about harf whether it has meaning in itself or not. From this I believe that the scholars of Nahw only consider harf as the one that has a meaning in itself and NOT AS WHAT THE BROTHERS HAVE MENTIONED ABOVE...

The proof of this can be found in the sharh of ajrumiyyah of Shaykh Uthaimeen (rahimahullah). However my question now is whether the scholars of Nahw regard the  حروف المباني as HARF OR NOT?

Ibn Uthaimeen (rahimahullah) said in his sharh of ajrumiyyah:


((حرف جاء لمعني ))

((من))
الميم في من حرف أم لا ؟ ليست حرفا. لأن ليس لها معنى النون في ((من)) ليس بحرف. إذن الحرف ما لا يدخل عليه علامات الاسم و لا الفعل.

ولكن الحرف المصطلح عند النحويين هو الذي له معنى.

[Page 42]




abdulilah    -- 08-18-2006 @ 10:32 AM
  assalamu 'alaikum

mashaallaah good to see a discussion on the Arabic language.

The sheikh is sheikh Abdulrahman al-Kooni from Maali residing in Madinah, Saudi Arabia, one of the best in the Arabic language in Madinah Mashaallaah, he teaches daily listening to many students at any level in any area of the language. Sheikh Muhammad Ammaan al-Jaami spoke highly of him. I recently recorded a biography of him june 2006, He has studied with the Aalim sheikh Shinqeeti al Kabeer rahimahullaah and then 10 years with sheikh Muhammad Mukhtar rahimahullah the father of the one teaching in the haram in Madinah now. He has explanations of many grammar books, such as Ajromiyyah, Mutamimma, etc.

Very slow and easy to follow but sometimes deep. I suggest for the beginner, the Madinah course as there are many conversations and vocabulary, if you want raw grammar to see the skeleton of the language then Ajromiyyah is excellent for that with tuhfah as an explanation. Then Mutamimma then either qatr nada or Alfiyyah. Sheikh Abdulrahman grades his duroos like this. Mutamimma is at the level of Qatr in its terminology, but the difficulty with qatr is that it delves into the differences between the people of Koofa and Basra.

However Mutamimma is excellent in that it is a completion of Ajromiyyah and mainly brings proof from Quran and ahadeeth.

As for the questions on Mamnu' min Sarf then the last part of book 1, the last part of book four (bk3 if you have them in one) it has reasons why they are so and in Ajromiyyah also there is a section clarifying in a couple of pages or so and in Mutamimma as a benefit mentions all Prophets names are mamnu' min Sarf except four! which ones???

The words that are Mamnu' min Sarf such as Masaajid means they don't accepts tanween nor kasra except if they are preceeded with alif and laam such as almasaajid

Allaah says- Wa antum 'aakifoona filMasaajidi
I'm sorry to use transliteration but i have no arabic on this computer i'm working on now.

Means you are making i'tikaaf in the mosques
due to Alif Laam entering on this word masaajid then it accepts the kasra.


Also if the word that is Mamnu' min Sarf such as Ahsan, if it is mudhaaf then it also accepts kasra

Allaah says
Fi Ahsani Taqweem

these are the two exceptions to mamnu' min Sarf words mentioned in Ajromiyyah from what i remember. Allaah knows best.







قال تعالى:{إنا نحن نزلنا الذكر وإنا له لحافظون}
قال الشيخ السعدي - رحمه الله - في تفسيره (3/31): " فلا يحرف محرف معنى من معانيه( القرآن ) إلا وقيض  الله له من يبين الحق المبين وهذا من أعظم آيات الله ونعمه على عباده المؤمنين".


ibnuabdullatiif    -- 12-02-2008 @ 4:17 PM
  assalamu 'alaikum brothers and sisters in islaam

i still not understand with the fifth type of ism who mamnou' min as sarf. please explain to me what the meaning is.

quote:

5) name which is  'ala wazni al fi'li: ahmadu, yazeedu,...


salam

assalamu 'alaikum brother wa sister ini islam


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